C.O.W.L. Volume 2: The Greater Good Review

Hi, this is Kyle Higgins and you're listening

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Radio Network. So without any further ado, it's

time to talk about the comics we are reading

right now here inside the pullback. Hello and

welcome to the pull bag, this is episode 312

That's right 312 for you Chicago people like

me because I now live in the Chicago area So

I am of course TF2 and Mike joining me for the

second week in a row is Dane Lamont from Punisher

Body Count. Hello, sir Hey there Mike And it

was four years ago, this coming November, that

we reviewed Image Comics' series, Cowl Vol. 1,

Principles of Power, written by Kyle Higgins

and Alec Siegel, I didn't say Alec, not Alex,

huge difference in those two names, with art

by Rod Rees, or Rice, I forget how his last name

is pronounced, I'm sure somebody will say something

about it. But yeah, I specifically, when I was

like, ooh, i've got dane for the flash season

zero that means i can basically make him come

back to read something that's actually good the

next week and ever since i've had that thought

of a good with the chicago air maine chicago

downtown area code is three one two everyone

knows that if you just watch an episode of jerry

springer three one two three two one whatever

the rest of jerry springer number was but uh...

but yeah we're here finally to talk about how

volume two For the great the greater good is

the title of the trade here. I Almost had to

go back and read the first volume because I forgot

what the hell happened Yeah, I'd like to give

a major props to comic vine the Wikipedia for

a bunch of comics that Large and small to remind

me whose people's names were and what they did

Yeah, I am Always knew it was Kyle and Alec on

the on the writing and rod on the art because

these three creators Have worked on various things

together. They just finished last year I think

it is Hadrian's Wall if you if you want to see

more stuff from them check out Hadrian's Wall

It's basically a murder mystery in space Really

it's very cool Actually, we just reviewed it

When did we do that 305? Yeah, we just reviewed

that this past April the trade and if you need

access to that I think we can talk about that

later. But anyway cowl season season volume to

The greater good this is issue 7 11 7 to 11 of

the series I was very not necessarily disappointed

with the book, but disappointed that it ended.

Like, I wasn't expecting this to have a hundred

issues, but, you know, fifteen, twenty might

be nice. I get it, it's comics, there's a whole

bunch of stuff going on, there's politics this,

politics that, whatever, but I was really hoping

for more than just eleven issues overall. Well

in the introduction which I believe is a mark

on Draco I Think he's a friend of the creators

behind this work He made a pretty good point

About how the story does end in a fairly In a

somewhat frustrating manner, there's definitely

plot points open ideas to be opened up, but he

also says That it's kind of appropriate because

that's life Right in life. You might get one

over you might have someone kick in the shins

and Some some of those things just don't get

resolved there There is actually a little bit

of poetry to it, but I also see it almost like

a TV a TV series like these trades or seasons

mm -hmm or maybe trades one and two really were

Side a and side be at the same season. Yeah absolutely

like I said am I Unhappy with how this is ended

no, I'm just disappointed that it ended. You

know it's kind of like everybody like oh Firefly

only got one season. Oh my god. What are we gonna?

Do it the rest of our lives? You know because

whatever but Yeah, no, this is yeah, you're right.

They're very very seasonal I remember four years

ago when we did the first trade that I felt that

I think I'd have to go back and listen to it

But I think I felt at the time Issues one to

five worked well as the story and then the sixth

issue which was like the origin of the gray raven

Jeffrey Warner the Cowl chief here. I felt that

that was almost out of place so Basically going

from issue five to issue set or issue. Yeah issue

five to issue seven. It's a full -on complete

story And this one is dealing with the fact that

cowl is on strike Because they're not getting

the deal that they want from the city of Chicago

Essentially is what this is Now what were you

thinking when you read this? In general? Yeah.

I really like how it didn't go off the rails

into the four different genres it's tipping its

feet into. And once again, the introduction brings

us up. It's Watchmen meets Mad Men meets NYPD

Blue and... and with a little bit of crime noir

set in. I mean, there's so many of these things

and it could have been very easy to lean a little

bit too hard into the unions and the government

are assholes or that superheroes are unbalanced,

terrible people. But they never really seemed

to get into any of that and I'm actually glad

I'm actually very glad that it didn't get into

anything too exploitative and it focused more

on these people trying to Keep something that's

close to their identity and also close to their

livelihood Yeah, exactly because you know, like

we said we have the city of Chicago the police

the mayor and all that on one side and you have

the gray raven and cowl on the other side. Do

you know what cowl is at its core, Mike? What's

that? Cowl is any DC, oh, let's keep it with

Marvel here for a sec, even though this came

out through image. Cowl is what happens when

superheroes want to have a team and they want

to do a lot of good full -time But they don't

have Tony Stark to bankroll everything Because

for real that's what I thought because I thought

oh man I wonder if any other superhero teams

have problems with funding and I realized oh

Marvel always seems to make that a big fucking

deal with the Avengers But they never really

seemed to address it in any kind of real way

if Tony Stark's on the team. Just go fuck it

He's just there are literally been times when

Tony didn't have a company and Tony Stark was

still funding the Avengers it's just come there

get out of jail free card with that conundrum

same deal with Justice League it you just assume

Batman funds everything yeah and in Cal there

is no magical rich man to save you you need that

government contract otherwise you are doing something

for free and as we all learned from Dark Nights

Return don't do something free if you're good

at it Some people, the reason I bring that up

is that I think a lot of people can see the idea

of cowl, Chicago superheroes unionizing and not

saving people if the contract with the city is

not renewed. They could see that as some kind

of cynical, dickish, or even comical thing. But

I actually think this is a level of realism that's

not... depressing as Watchmen or it's not like

the the Marvel Ultimates where everything is

just always depressing and ultra mean and gritty

this actually to me focused on an aspect that

I think a lot of writers ignore in any kind of

logistics as superheroes without forgetting that

these are human beings as well exactly yeah and

here's the thing about this like Yeah, you say

about Tony and Bruce and all that, and they can

just foot the bill whether they have companies

or not, because let's face it, Tony and Bruce

at this point, at this point or even 10 years

ago or 20 years ago, they're still in comics,

nothing really... This, between Cowl, Iron Man,

Batman, and Spider -Man, Iron Man, Batman, and

Spider -Man, there's three things that never

really change. Iron Man and Batman are always

rich and Uncle Ben is always dead, for the most

part. Like, there's just no changing that. Those

are comic staples, no matter what's going on

in Tony's or Bruce's life. But the thing here

is, is that in order for the superheroes to do

what they want to do... save people or whatever

they have to have a contract with the city the

other thing is this is not modern era this is

like you know 40s 50s and 60s I mean yes you

know 1962 in this in this second volume so this

is Chicago in the 60s when there was no Mean,

I'm sure there were a bunch of rich people around

but like you said there's not gonna be one that

just Pops up and says sure I'll pay for everything

Hey having it having it be a superhero comic

and also being grounded in reality Makes this

series very special Yeah, but here's my question.

Do you you get any kind of like a Chicago flavor?

through Cal. Oh, because I know you live around

there. And I just don't besides the idea that

that times are tough or things are tough in the

Chicago city. This city will chew up and spit.

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much the tale for

like any major city, really. Like, did this actually

could you look at this even in 1950s, 1960s era

that it's taking place? And can you actually

go? Oh, yeah, that's Chicago. I recognize i don't

know the mannerisms or the settings or or the

street corners people are on the street corners

in the settings yes the people probably not because

their characters created for this story like

the you know just the original but here's here's

the cool thing about kyle because kyle higgins

is i believe he's originally from chicago so

uh... i think alec is too i could be wrong about

that but here's the thing about this is they

have uh... is in the beginning or is it at the

end at some point in this and it was in the first

one to usually when they did the chapter openings

they would have the map of the city and they

would have various sections they would have river

north they would have this they would have that

they would have the west side they would have

they would have all the stuff that is very chicago

there is even several different panels later

in this trade that basically show you where the

loop is yeah it's the the map is right at the

beginning of the trade and yeah it lists all

these all these areas of the city and and you

know basically hey come tour chicago in nineteen

sixty two so yes i do see a lot of the city here

and Think that's the way it's supposed to be

them like I said the character mannerisms. I

don't know maybe maybe not I would say between

Jeffrey and Camden stone Jeffrey Warner and Camden

stone. Oh, yeah, they're basically to Quote well

Camden is but both of them are basically two

warring mob bosses Even though Jeffrey is the

leader of the superhero labor union Yeah But

yeah, this is very Chicago. They wouldn't have

said it in Chicago if they didn't want to put

the Chicago touch on it I think I told you this

last time the damn comic even has a jazz score

to it You know I checked that up check that out

when I got done with my trade paperback of it

and I checked it out on Amazon and Would want

to interview the creative team behind this comic

simply to talk about that because it's an original

soundtrack to an a third -party comic That and

it's good. It is generally it is a Movie track

quality good like the the actual song Chicago

the actual song called investigation. I think

there was another one with uh What was it warden's

superhero name the silver? Goodness, I can't

quite remember. Oh the gray raven the great rare

They actually have one named up and you can buy

it on Amazon I mean Mike you should sincerely

like link to it somewhere in the description

it's funny you say that because We released The

first trade episode we released a cow volume

1 November 12 2014 November 14th of the same

year I interviewed the composer of the school

I think it's always great. Oh, I see it now.

Yeah. Oh, that's well I just always enjoy when

comics try and add in some kind of what's the

best word for that? I don't know enhanced Enhanced

media around it. Like do you remember when Marvel

had that had those QR codes? What do you call

that Marvel now or Marvel next? Yeah Marvel now

had them at the time. Yeah. Yeah, but boy You

could actually see the extra content collapse

by the sixth issue of that, because people just

ran out of shit to talk about. But I love that

idea. I love when people try and even do motion

comics with comics, add music to comics, or they

try tweening effects. I always think that's cool

just to see what could happen, the experimental

effect. And I think, did you listen to any of

the music while reading it? Oh, yeah. I had it

on repeat. Yeah. Like I said, it's not just a

gimmick. It's actually very atmospheric for the

Post -noir atmosphere that is in Cal. Absolutely.

Yeah, I did it the first time After we recorded

and I had the I had the score because I originally

bought it on iTunes and I've got it on Spotify

now When it came out, you know, I I read it with

the first volume after we did the recording when

I reread the first volume I don't know, a few

months after we did that, four years ago, and

I listened to it today when I was reading this,

because I couldn't not do that. I mean, it's

very, like you said, it's very rare when these

things happen, but when they happen and it's

good and it matches the feel of the comic book,

you need to immerse yourself in that, and that

is what is so cool. Love so just kind of I've

got notes for each of the issues here and issue

seven. I love Doppler's mask I thought that was

super that was a super cool design on his mask

Could we actually talk about the favor the best

moments or your favorite moment of it because

you mentioning Doppler just reminded me of that

those Just as a quick summary because Mike and

I agreed we're not going to take this down page

by page or any kind of weird annotation but We

are gonna try and take it down more in general

areas of the comic like how we've been talking

about its music and how but in its general setting

One of the things that one of my favorite moments

of this comic was Doppler one of the new villains

that's been hired to create an artificial see

this is what I really like because it really

does get at a core of of the private and public

sector constantly at at odds with one another

and or There's even the synthesis of the two

Like with this superhero group being contract

a contract with the city This whole comic is

basically warden trying to essentially get a

better bargaining chip so They can sew his superhero

team can have better vests and a nicer retirement

Like all this horror happens over maybe three

paragraphs of a contract. That's that's kind

of what's but what's darkly hilarious over Cal,

but anyway in part of creating more leverage

for What is this last name warden the guy that

used to be great? Okay Jeff Warner. Yeah, sorry

about that. Yeah, Jeffrey Warner He actually

high like Mike mentioned earlier a local gang

lord to basically recruit new super villains

to create a demand for cowl to come out of striking

so one of these guys is Doppler and He and he

goes I can manipulate sound waves and this is

the first time that actually was cool to me Was

the first I mean maybe in Batman Beyond when

had that one guy that was yeah Yeah, yeah Shriek

and like Shrieve. He was good mostly because

he was deaf and even in the cartoon they actually

oh the cartoon trolled so many kids cuz at one

point it Batman just lost his ability to hear

and so all the kids started boosting up the volume

and then when the volume came back kids Your

drums they won an Emmy for that episode and that's

Essentially Doppler made it interesting simply

because okay. Well fucking comics are a Soundless

medium. How do you make this work without just

making your you tell the artist to go fuck it

bunch of squiggly lines Pretend you're just attacking

someone with an audacity file or what -have -you

So instead what he does is he uses I mean, yes

He does amplify crinkle effects and that can

hurt people or amplify the sounds around him

But sometimes god damn it he'll just grab a sound

effect out midair and just hit you with it he

literally gives Catherine the D because he grabs

the letter D from a guy saying oh my god and

back hands her with that letter D because he

grabs it from some guy's speech bubble in an

almost Deadpoolian moment and just of some like

weird self -awareness grabs it and hits her in

the back of the head and while he tries to get

away from her and The one thing I like about

Cal is you think all that this is a very depressing

thing where they're almost ashamed of Super heroics

or or and that's just the backdrop. No Every

fight in this is very creative even the fights

between two fairly regular dudes like when when

Jeffrey is going up against arc light and Has

to beat the shit out of them to make the story

of of John Pierce's murder more believable. Yeah

And the fact that Pierce was one of the Chicago

six like they didn't even really ever touch on

that until now and just saying it and passing

basically Covering up that fact. I thought that

was super cool. Okay, that was cool But also

a little weird cuz what Mike what did that add

up to in the end? It didn't add up to much because

the guy's dead at this point, but I was hoping

when I first read this I was hoping This is when

I first read this is when before the series got

quote -unquote canceled or put on hold or whatever

before the series went away Before we found out

that there wasn't gonna be any past issue 11

at this point and maybe like we've already said

They'll go back to it someday What I was hoping

was even though John is dead at this point that

at some point down the line They would go and

do another one -off issue like they did with

Jeffrey like Thought that's what they were gonna

do like would say issue 12 or issue 13 it would

be basically John's kind of history like a Memorandum

of John Pierce and his life or something or other

Not necessarily a full -on origin story, but

just the fact that he was one of the Chicago

six So it didn't really do anything in the comic

it just basically solidifies the fact that Warner

has to continually cover up everything he basically

has to cover his ass at every single turn yeah

it's like god what's the name of the like ray

donovan if you've ever watched that it's just

a story about a fixer in hollywood and and he's

constantly having to solve other people's screw

-ups even though here jeffrey is creating a lot

of his own screw -ups just by i said It's the

victory at any cost at the negotiation table

that is creating all of this. There's no real

external threat. Camden, the mob boss, didn't

really give too much of a shit for this, if anything.

And he straight up admits, yeah, I'll set some

supervillains loose just because this has to

blow up in your face sooner or later. Yeah, let's

do this. I mean, you'll pay me. I'll get some

capital and some favors out of it. I just want

to see this blow up in your face But what was

your favorite moment out of this comic? It has

to be like favorite villain moment would probably

be when he grabbed the D out of the oh my god

But as far as the comic itself Normally, I don't

like it when comics jump time or when they jump

between two different plots. However, in issue

eight, I love the juxtaposition of how the issue

going back and forth between the discussion slash

interrogation of Arklight and the attack on Lawrence

Hayes the Alderman. I thought that was a very

nice way to tell the story at the stu - basically

two stories at the same time without feeling

like you're being pulled in, you know, several

different directions. Some com - And even back

when this was out, some comics in today's age

don't handle multiple storylines in one issue

very well. This does. And I absolutely love that.

Or doing what you're mentioning, like scene congruency,

how one scene kind of has a thematic similarity

to one another and how they can enhance the meaning

of one another. That was really nice. I think

that's why people like Watchmen so much is that

it had those layers. And while Cal doesn't try

and get that technical or even up its own ass,

it definitely makes its themes clear without

beating you over the head with them. Yeah, absolutely.

And the themes of the story, I mean, the themes

of the story, the themes of the overall book,

like, it's very easy. You know, you've got Evelyn

who's trying to figure out the whole thing with

with Cowell and Warner and John and all that

come to find out that Evelyn was was Pierce's

contact and all that I was shocked all the hell

to find out that sparrow was even alive Because

I thought he died. Well, that's it. It's one

of those done done done. Yeah, absolutely This

is just People, if you want, I've been really

burnt out on superheroes. Really, really burnt

out on the big two companies. I barely read anything

from Marvel right now. And the only thing from

DC I'm currently reading is Batman Beyond because

I'm just a huge Batman Beyond fan. The rest of

it, I've been so burnt out the last couple of

years and I've been looking for other things

that are going to peak my interest. This is one

of them. If you want a creator -owned series

that basically has, you know, intrigue and, you

know, all that stuff, you know, murders and whatever

and trying to figure out the politics of it all

in the sixties in Chicago, this is the book for

you, folks. I can't recommend this series enough.

Now let's talk about within I completely agree

with everything you're saying it's for a lot

of people I think especially in 2018 you You

can't just have a superhero comic that rests

on its own laurels It has to have something that

makes it stick out from the pack and I think

Cal definitely does that But what whereas a moment

that you thought was the worst in this volume

or just the boring or just did nothing for you?

I'm trying to think. A lot of the back and forth

at times between Jeffrey and Arclight wasn't

really boring, it wasn't bad, it wasn't poorly

done, but it was just like, dude, even though

Jeffrey has whatever ulterior motives, he's trying

to help you just go with it. Stop, you know,

going back and forth and all that. Uh, what about

you? What was something? Was there anything?

Cause, I mean... Overall I pretty much enjoyed

all of this You know, it's not really a moment

but a character. Mm -hmm, and I still like her

it just Catherine to me the girl who played our

Arcadia and kept stepping out of the the Union

line to Go after people like she she's the classic

super class the The superhero that would exist

well in any other property and any other company

because she wants to just do the right thing

But she has been sucked into not only the Union

but also being essentially the poster girl I

know we kind of talked about her being like the

Sioux storm of in in volume one of this issue

of Back all those four years back. Yeah, but

yeah, the the thing about radio is Catherine

Mitchell, I believe is the last name. Yeah, the

thing about her is though think about women at

the time in the 60s. Oh No, they address. Yeah,

even in volume one Yeah, absolutely and they

and they go even further in volume two With no

my thing is how she reacts to a lot of this stuff

If anything, it actually makes her come off a

little bit more childish like I think even in

volume one her and grant tried to cover up their

tracks a little bit more when they were going

vigilante style here she just goes after Doppler

burst in through the wall like the Like the fucking

Kool -Aid man and then when she takes Doppler

down and saves the alderman the policeman going

like oh You're aren't your ankles broken. You

should stay right here. No, man. I'm a superhero

and she's like lies off I can fly dog and this

feels like a 16 or 17 year old that that's running

off some adrenaline more than an adult person

and even when the thing is she never Seems to

work like here's what I really like about this

It's very easy for Jeffrey to come off as the

villain and all of this but I Like that. He has

two things kind of going for him for one at the

end of the day. Yes He's trying to make an argument

for the union still being important for cows

still being important for Chicago But market

forces and crime says it's not important. But

hey, you never know. There could be some mole

man army below Chicago at any point How do you

know it ain't gonna happen have that freaking

insurance both him and Reggie make that argument

at the end? Secondly, he makes it where man he

never had kids in his time as superheroes over.

This is all he's got And for a lot of people,

this is all they got. And it's very tough to

let that identity go. Now, is that completely

excusable? No. But is it super relatable? Yes.

And once again, Jeffrey is protecting people's

jobs, their livelihoods. If you've put 10 years

in this job and you plan to retire from it and

that job just disappears, you're SOL for a good

portion of your life, maybe all of it. My point

is Radia or Katherine doesn't seem to really

Relate or be sympathetic to any of that and she

never really seems to address any of it She just

starts going re I did the right thing And just

never really seems to have a real discussion

with Jeffrey Maybe because Jeffrey is too authoritarian

with her but still there's never any real debate

Over whether she did the right thing or not.

I understand what you're saying But here's the

thing throughout this entire series not just

this trade but the first trade They're based

The way I saw Katherine in this was that she

was a woman who wanted to be Where women should

be like out in like not just used to be the face

of Cowell not just used all of the time and that

scene that you're mentioning of her You know

breaking out like a teenager saying no I can

fly that to me was more of You know, no, I don't

need no man to take care of me. I can fly. I'm

fine. I will deal with it. Whatever kind of a

thing. It wasn't necessarily a teenager's thing.

It was more of... I don't want to say this but

I will anyway more of like a woman's lib kind

of thing because that's really what I mean That's

pretty reminiscent of the era. So I feel like

that's a wrong thing to say Yeah, that's the

first thing I thought of when I saw that scene

and when I've seen her character throughout the

series is that she's basically fighting for her

own rights to do not necessarily do anything

she wants to do but at least be Recognize the

same as the rest of the men are because she's

the only woman in the entire Division well, I

guess my point is I felt like her arc went and

maybe this was the point went against the the

major conflict with all the other characters

which was there's a system in place and You can

either feed into it or it will eat you. How do

you react to that? Like with Jeffrey, he's trying

to get the system to bend to his will so he can

protect his people. With Reggie, he is there

to enforce that system. He is there to enforce

party unity. give less of a shit and just doesn't

want you to push them the wrong way. Other people

are down with it down with the union, and they

are down with whatever they got to do. And they're

just going to keep their heads down. And then

we have, um, like Catherine, like you said, who

wants to be her own person, but her relationship

to the union Isn't really made that clear other

than it's probably tenuous at best and she's

never really had strong feelings for it And she

does and she probably doesn't like most of her

co -workers in that case. That's great, but they

make it seem like she's more of a Superwoman

character with a very black -and -white morality

when really morality Doesn't come into that big

a play into this kind of comic now. I do agree

that She is trying to find her own person in

her own identity in this and trying to establish

herself and anytime Jeffrey comes down on her

that she takes that almost as a challenge Yeah,

she does Which yeah, I don't know. It's a very

slippery slope Yeah, no, no my and here's my

thing. I don't even hate Katherine as a character.

I just felt like she didn't have as much to do

With the main plot in fact she was if you really

boil it down She is there to throw a monkey wrench

into things more than to react to things I guess

I guess is my point she becomes a problem for

other people More than her actually being part

of the plot Yeah, pretty much and That's a little

crazy because I wish she was more part of the

plot and I I think if the series had continued

i swear i saw somewhere that kyle and alex said

that there was going to be more focus on her

and she would have a not necessarily more central

role but again it's comics it's what it is and

it ended i love how it ended though because almost

everybody pretty much got you know like her and

uh... and carl are doing the private investigation

thing Jeffrey and Reggie are doing the cowl thing

and you know it was wrapped up very nicely it

wasn't necessarily wrapped up with a little blue

bow or anything they left like you said earlier

they left enough of an unanswered thing where

if they want to come back to it at some point

they can and tell more stories but they also

wrapped it up fairly well Yeah, it at the end

of the day the plot or at least the external

Conflict was the contract negotiations and Jeffrey

got his contract. He got practically everything

he wanted and And all it cost was a couple of

lives man and some infrastructure damage Yeah,

that's not exactly a good thing but Yeah, but

I mean that's kind of the point is Even Reggie

and Jeffrey at the end try and have that conversation

about like well, I mean, you know And what's

hilarious is by trying to create this demand

for through? There is a bit of almost Shakespearean

irony at the end because while they were trying

to fake demand for a cowl by Create by hiring

super villains The Camden even admits that half

the guys there weren't his they were outsiders

that just came in Maybe they were inspired by

the Chicago six and now they're trying to crack

at it Maybe they saw how much money was being

made. So they're just being independent agents

Again, that's the own problem Exactly, and that's

the openness. I think that's the open -endedness

of this story Where is if Kyle Alec and Rod want

to come back to it? That's where they come back.

They like let's say for example I Don't know

somehow Jeffrey is still alive in 1972 so you

now have 70s Chicago and let's say maybe some

of the other heroes or even if you said it You

know like right before the Vietnam War You know

that would be interesting to see how not necessarily

have it be a Vietnam War thing But you know have

the superhero labor union in Chicago like 66

or 67 right as the war is starting to see where

they are at that point and how Good or bad the

city is As dark as that this possible story could

get I would really like to see how the cow universe

would handle like the Chicago race riots At the

time Lee I feel like there's that is the interesting

thing about Cal is they didn't really get into

the history of the universe that much besides

They summoned a lot of these guys were in World

War two Even Reginald's gauntlet came from a

Nazi scientist and he stole it from the guy.

I mean they have that level to it But besides

that I forgot who was president during this time

reading it Yeah, I mean I it's funny when There's

a point in the comic I forget which issue it

is but there's a point in the trade where The

FBI goes to Jeffrey and says you need to fix

this stuff with you and the mayor you need to

get on this or else You know, mr. Hoover is gonna

come in and once that happens all hell is gonna

break loose. I'm like Why is the vacuum? Oh,

right Jay? Yeah Talk about a cleanup. He's gonna

come in there in his big green dress Call volume

2 it's a very fun Nostalgic kind of read like

looking back on the city of Chicago back in the

60s I Wish I don't think there is there might

be I wish there was an omnibus of this basically

getting all 11 issues together. I doubt there'd

be an omnibus because a I've never heard of an

omnibus of that's 11 issues. I'm sure it could

exist. And secondly, I feel like they are leaving

the door open for Cal to come back for a volume

three. I think these guys, you know, did we talk

about in the the original in volume one how this

was based off a Short film called the league

that the guys the okay great because I feel like

these guys want to do more with this but maybe

Do like make this more of a proof of concept

for TV? I feel like these guys just so badly

want this to be a TV show and they made it a

comic to fill in the time But until they get

signed on to Netflix or whatever and I do not

mean that in a shitty way right because the comic

clearly took effort the comic was clearly talented

in its use of panel composition. I love the artwork

in general. To me, it's almost like a Jim Steranko

look with a much grittier tone, especially in

the in the covers, which were always creative.

I love the covers for the series. They're so

cool. Yeah, I agree. And if he hadn't have passed

away. If they did eventually get a TV series

for this, the only person I could see playing

the current Jeffrey that we see in this... Yeah,

Leslie Nielsen. I know. Okay, no, that's not

where I was going with that. You don't want Frank

Drebin in 60's Chicago. Adam West is the only

person I could see playing the old Grey Raven.

Could see that simply because Adam West would

probably be tired of playing a joke character

or being a reference like oh a hard -ass union

boss absolutely He would he would be so down

for that. Yeah Absolutely Volume two, what are

you gonna rate it zero to five, sir? Well, let's

see man, I wish I remembered my original score

For volume one, but it boy it has been a minute

on that I'm gonna rate this solid for four out

of five. It's definitely above average and But

you know what I can kind of understand why they're

stopping at it at 11 as well constructed as it

is There's just something to it that just isn't

going to capture An audience in in 2018 is or

or whenever like it just doesn't have Whatever

is going to catch the attention of comic fans

today. Everything about it is very well meticulously

plotted and crafted and it has its own style

its own universe, but I Probably won't read these

again if I'm being honest about it. I don't feel

like there's a good there's good replay value

to these comics Think if you want to read the

story like if you go and like if somebody goes

and checks out the league on iTunes or wherever

you can find the league and Then you want to

see more of it and you want to read these stories

these issues this this whole arc here I think

somebody could do that. I do know that this had

a fairly large fan base when it was you know

actively as an ongoing um... again it's something

for... well is this large for i'm not trying

to be shitty when i say this is this large for

image standards? probably like wow ten thousand

people amazing and i'm not trying to be mean

i don't know i mean i'm just saying that you

know not everyone can be the punisher you know

Oh, yeah, a solid $28 ,000 a month. Yeah. Just

owning the world at those numbers. Okay, fine.

Not everyone can be a Batman or a Spider -Man

or, you know, I'm saying that there's a lot.

See, I've... because i'm so far out of the superhero

genre or the antihero genre or whatever at this

point there's a lot of independent stuff there's

a lot of even even the license stuff there's

a lot of of other fandoms out there than just

your normal superhero comic and this basically

to me is A more violent superhero comic like

you said earlier. It's it's kind of like Watchmen

It's kind of like other things but it also for

me it has its own flair to it that separates

itself from that other stuff and not only that

I'm you you actually do bring up a good point

in the flourishing of independent comics, and

I'm actually kind of glad that the What's the

word comic -con numbers or the diamond distribution

numbers the dick -waving contest means a little

bit less these days Mostly because if you know

sincerely if you have like even for us as podcasters

if you have a thousand people willing to give

you a dollar a month or whatever like you could

probably create something out of that if you

have if Out of all your listeners, 10 % of them

are hardcore and they'll follow you into whatever

you do and you have enough of that following,

you can make a living. Cal, I feel, could have

3 ,000 people that would buy the comics, buy

the soundtrack, buy the t -shirts, buy the 1

,000 limited print busts of Arcadia or what have

you. You tell could survive in today's times

through Kickstarter and and onward as long as

they have that hardcore group of fans Look, it's

kind of like how I told Jake they should make

a Boba Fett movie But make the tickets cost $30

because that way the hardcore fans For Boba Fett

will make up for all the people who don't give

a shit about Boba Fett Okay, I'll say this again

originally I never gave a shit about Boba Fett.

The reason why... He's cool as hell. He's in

the movie for like two seconds and then the star

like eats him or whatever it is. I feel like

I'm arguing with Jake here. No, no, no! This

is all about rule of cool, motherfucker! That's

what everything is! No, no, no! That's right!

Darth Vader is a man in a weird, bullshit samurai

scuba gear outfit who waves a laser sword at

some dopey blonde kid. You can reduce everything

in Star Wars until it becomes dumb. Yes. Here's

the thing, though. I finally understood. at a

later date um why people enjoyed Boba Fett and

it had really nothing to do with the limited

time he was in the films it's what he represented

okay that too but it also like there were two

uh... star wars blood ties volume one and volume

two uh... it was basically the story of the feds

so like for me as a kid growing up it's like

boba fed he's just a bounty hunter in the movie

no one cares and then you know thirty some odd

years later oh my god boba fed is amazing i'm

like amazing he didn't do shit in the movie he

did not do anything really other than Capture

Han Solo. That's that's all he could do like

really seriously. That's it But after reading

those two trades and recording the show on those

I'm like, oh I kind of get it now I kind of understand

it. Am I a fan of the guy now? Hell no, but I

Understand it at least now why people are a fan

of him. Yeah, this is like Saying you're not

allowed to like Bippo in Superman because he

only shows up once a year Like it's like no Bippo's

great He's Superman's version of Popeye. If Popeye

was a super fan of Superman. Bippo is wonderful.

You don't need Bippo 24 -7. Just same deal with

Boba Fett. You don't need him all the time. Yeah,

and the thing with Bippo is the only person that

could ever voice that character is Brad Garrett.

Oh my god, I forgot Brad Garrett voiced him.

Yep. Good for you, Brad. You get that money.

Well, it was in Superman the Animated Series

because it's, uh, is it the episode Monkey Fun,

I think? I forget. Basically, the only reason

why I remember is Brad Garrett is because it's

Brad Garrett and he's mumbling, uh, Superman

and, uh, this and, ooh, Soderpop or whatever

he says. You know. I don't know. But anyway.

Uh, alright, folks. That's gonna do it for us.

Um... This time around next time around in episode

313 Steve Megatron is gonna make a a return to

the pull bag and we're gonna talk about something

that I Never thought would happen. I'm sure it

would have happened eventually, but something

I didn't even know about I wasn't even keeping

up on Kyle Higgins returned to Nightwing again,

so He got to write Nightwing and the New 52 from

2011 to 2014 and those stories are amazing and

then obviously the New 52 became Rebirth and

he went on to other things and whatever else.

Well I've come to find out last year into this

year he did a six issue miniseries, Nightwing

the New Order. That was a very good series. Oh

my god, it's glorious. It's... Just because the

trade came out this year not necessarily when

the the series debuted But just because the the

trade paperback came out this year. It is easily

right now as of this recording in my personal

opinion the best trade paperback of the year

how and it really makes you wonder a mini series

about Nightwing got released in the year 2018

that's pretty bananas Not really he's got his

own ongoing at DC still barely he is the Punisher

of of the DC universe and by that I mean they

could let his ass go and put him to sleep anytime

You know they did that already. Yeah, no and

not only that like did Dan Didio or have you

say a lot his life video? Yeah, he um He has

constantly been saying Nightwing is a pointless

character and should die and that's why Nightwing

has had to become a super spy, move back to Blue

Haven, date a blue -haired chick for a while,

make friends with a shark dude, just anything

that sticks, maybe travel, have a what if future

story, a miniseries done by a fan favorite writer.

He is always on the razor's edge of getting canceled

and don't you and don't you Nightwing fans ever

forget that and this is coming from a guy that

likes Nightwing But boy, he's never as popular

as you Nightwing fans seem to think he is He's

essentially Batman's first son Damien be damned.

I don't care about the biology of it all but

you know And you know, there was that one time

that the Punisher went to Chicago and Nightwing

ran him over with a train. So there's always

that. So Nightwing beats the Punisher. Cool.

Yes. Where do the people find you online, sir?

Well, we are on PunisherBodyCount .com and also

on all major RSS feed and podcast providers,

including Stitcher, I believe. Let's see here.

Also, I have a prank phone call album called

The Paul Perrone Tapes that you can buy off Amazon,

iTunes, Google Play, and that other service for

rappers that I forget. And you can, let's see

here. And that's called The Paul Perrone Tapes.

You can also, if... You can also donate to our

coffee .com page, which you just go to co -fi

.com and buy Jake and I, my co -host is Jake,

a cup of coffee. Every coffee brings us closer

to our goal, which is a $1 ,000 bounty for the

head of Garth Innis. But you gotta keep the head

alive, we wanna interview him first. Awesome

awesome. I am at TF2 and Mike on Twitter You

can follow at geek cast radio and at the pull

bag on Twitter as well Make your greatest game

in the comics and we will catch you next time

here inside the pull bag Hi, this is Joe Clark

composer of the cowl sessions and you are listening

to the geek cast radio network You've just heard

the latest episode of The Pullback, the GCRN's

first comic review and discussion podcast. There

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