Celebrating 50 Years of Star Trek

This is Robert Picardo, the holographic doctor

from the Star Trek Voyager and Commander Woolsey

from Stargate Atlantis. You're listening to Mike

the Birdman Dodd and the rest of the twig crew

on This Week in Geek .net. Network. You are listening

to this week in Geek .net's Topic Show for the

month of September. Yes, I realize it's October,

but we took a little bit of time off so I could

get my kind of head on straight. Plus, this record

has just been plagued by all sorts of really

weird tech issues. Finally, we got it all figured

out as we strap in to celebrate 50 years of Star

Trek. But I'm not alone as I sit on the bridge

of this. I don't know. What kind of vessel do

you think we'd be having here? Definitely not

intrepid class. No. Hey. Why do you hate my beloved

Voyager? Oh, we'll get into that when we get

to the show. And we have my number one, my definitely

my second in command. Ryan, the uneven flow.

And surprisingly, I've not crashed us into any

well. Well, any planets of any kind, and haven't

encountered any Romulans in the Neutral Zone.

So yes, guys, if you haven't guessed, that's

what we're going to be talking about this month.

50 Years of Star Trek, the original series, premiered

50 years ago last month. And I've actually got

some surprising thoughts on that series, as I

don't have a lot of experience with the original

series up until the last week or so. So, I guess

everyone's been wondering what the hell's been

going on. In short, pretty much just hit a pretty

bad spurt of depression, just hit kind of a low

spot there, but hopefully I should be bouncing

back soon. It's October, which traditionally

is a bad month for me, just because my birthday

sucks, but we're hoping this year will be a little

bit different. I guess a little bit of an update

as well. Last week when me and Ryan actually

were going to record the show last Friday, I

was actually almost hospitalized due to a severe

case of food poisoning, a gastrointestinal bug,

and severe dehydration. We had the paramedics

at my house and everything. It was not a fun

time. So, I was on my back for most of the last

week. Finally, I've started feeling better in

the last probably three or four days. I'm finally

hydrated, finally. As you can imagine, being

a man of this size and girth does not come easy

when it comes to hydrating. pretty much, kind

of like that scene from Doctor Who, moisturize

me. They pretty much just pumped fluids into

me. Blair pretty much spoon -fed me applesauce

and toast for almost a week. And I've recovered

well, at least well enough to watch a shit -ton

of Star Trek. So I was living every nerd's dream,

laying around in my underwear watching Star Trek

for a week or so. Ryan, what have you been up

to recently? Not much. Watch Luke Cage. Actually,

what are your thoughts on it? Have you finished

it yet? No, not quite. I've really liked it.

It doesn't suffer through the middle as most

of the Netflix series do. Unfortunately, it kind

of suffers at the end, but I don't know. Overall,

it might be one of the better Netflix seasons.

Has the opposite issue of some of the other ones

the other Netflix series Daredevil season 1 &

2 and Jessica Jones I'd argue Have better villains

than they have heroes Or at least more compelling

ones Luke Cage doesn't have particularly compelling

villains, but it's got a really Compelling hero

and Mike Colton's really really good as Luke

Cage So it also gives it a bit of a different

feel than those That's the other thing too. It

doesn't feel like any of the other Netflix shows

and that's actually a good thing. Like it works

really well I like it a lot. I find that it feels

almost crammed in the MCU where they have to

keep Referencing. Oh, yeah the incident. Oh,

yeah this and Justin Hammer and all that thing.

Other than that, yeah, I really agree with you.

Although I do like the villains with Cottonmouth

and the Council Woman. When things get a little

later on, I do like him, but it kind of took

me by surprise because I haven't read the comics.

The Council Woman is the best of the villains

to me, everybody else. Cottonmouth was pretty

solid. the person you're the person you're referring

to I didn't like as a villain at all because

Basically, they're too insane to actually be

a believable villain like who the hell would

follow this guy He's like randomly kills his

people all the time Yeah, he is kind of nutty

that'll that yeah like Kingpin would snap but

it was generally for a reason like you could

see there are things that These are things that

would annoy a normal person and kingpin to a

certain extent was socially awkward And so it

annoyed him more. He was almost like a child

In a man's body and he had the ability to you

know, crush people with a car door And stuff

like that. So that made sense purple man. I mean

The thing with him was he just did whatever he

wanted like he had followers, but they it was

against their will Plus and plus David Tennant

had a certain charisma which kind of carried

him through the role. It's funny because Tennant

had a charisma that you wanted to like the guy

like you automatically want to like him but his

character is just so vile and creepy and icky

in the show that it makes this really good. It

made for a really good contrast. Yeah I mean

overall Luke Cage I'm pretty pleased with it.

I like it better than Daredevil season one. Not

as much as season two because I do like some

of the other characters in there Although I will

say if Luke Cage does anything better than any

of the Netflix series so far Its use of music

is incredible. Yes music is good I put it. It's

probably stronger than either season of daredevil

I don't know where it is with Jessica Jones,

which is still for me like the pit the top Yeah,

daredevil season two by far the weakest Which

is unfortunate because like the stuff with the

Punisher was great the stuff with black sky was

terrible Which sucks because I really like to

load a young as Electra, but anyway Yeah, I guess

we'll see what happens with her when we get the

inevitable daredevil daredevil three announcer

actually has that even been announced yet Yeah,

it was already announced. Okay, so next we have

an iron fist and the defenders Yeah, Iron Fist

should be good. I'm still wondering what's happening

with Punisher, because they're saying 2018, but

Jon Bernthal fairly recently didn't make a number

of appearances with Marvel stuff, and they said

it's because he's filming something, so I have

a feeling it's happening sooner rather than later.

It would make sense, so they have it all ready

to go. Plus I'd be very curious to see because

there was even a comment recently in the media

where we could see some of the Netflix characters

show up in Infinity War Yeah, the possibilities

there which excites me tremendously So but anyway,

we are not here to talk about the MCU though.

We could definitely do that Like I said, we're

gonna be talking about Star Trek 50 years of

trekking across the stars now normally We would

do a just the facts here, but then again It is

pretty much what's the point, because everybody

knows the history. This was a show that came

out in the 60s. The brainchild of writer Gene

Roddenberry set up pretty much a lot of the tropes

and a lot of the sci -fi television stuff that

we know and enjoy today. Because before Star

Trek, what were some of the sci -fi series that

were on TV? We had Lost in Space, which I think

was like one or two years earlier. Doctor who

I think was just coming on. No, wait, that was

sixty -three. Never mind. I'm trying to think

of other American sci -fi. I wasn't alive. Don't

look at me on this one. I'm trying to think.

Yeah, I really can't think of a lot of early

sci -fi that wasn't in like movie theaters pretty

much. So there was just. This void on network

television that Gene Roddenberry is able to fill

and this is one of the few shows that actually

had a fan campaign to bring it back and it worked

like we had a we got the third season due to

fans saying we want we want kind of more of this

and without Star Trek arguably We probably wouldn't

have the modern convention scene Because we started

having Star Trek conventions in like the 70s

And then that expanded into like comic expos

and everything else. And then it just kind of

grew from there. I mean, we started having cosplay.

You know, obviously everyone had the like Spock

ears and everything. I remember Star Trek stuff

being mass merchandised. Mind you, I wasn't alive

during the 60s either, but I remember during

a lot of the movie stuff, there was a lot of

like Star Trek merch around them. We'll definitely

talk about that stuff. And technology in general,

too. I don't think it's a coincidence that the

first cellular telephones the small ones were

happened to be flip phones Yeah, which big yeah,

which bared resemblance to Kirk's communicator,

which you'd flipped open which we didn't really

get a real version like we actually have a Bluetooth

version of the communicator which actually does

the little sound effect now which I Think you

can get exclusively from think geek calm. I think

yes You can also get the Star Trek calm badge

from from TNG as well I'm waiting for the DS9

Voyager variant, if we ever get that, because

that's my favorite style of com badge. Which

I actually wore that around for a year. I actually

had a com badge attached via magnet to almost

all my shirts all the time when I left the house.

I'm just a giant nerd that way. So we often start

these shows off talking about where our memories

of the series start. And with me in Star Trek...

goes all the way back to grade six, grade six

or seven. My teacher at the time was a guy named

Mr. Collins, and there was me and my friend Wayne,

and he got me in the Star Trek The Next Generation,

which I thought was the original. And then my

teacher, Mr. Collins, started a thing called

Star Trek Club, which lasted all of like three

months maybe. But we all got together at lunch

time and watched one episode of the original

series for like, like I said, probably a couple,

for at least a couple of weeks. And I remember

the first episode he ever showed us was the trouble

with tribbles. And to my little grade seven mind,

I was like, wow, this is really old. And I didn't

much care for it. I thought it was funny though.

And then that Christmas, I got a bunch of Star

Trek ships. I got the Enterprise D, which I actually

still had up until a couple of, probably about

a year ago, actually. I've got a new one now.

I got that, the Klingon Vortia class. I think

that was the Attack Cruiser. I had the Romulan

Deer Decks, Bird of Prey. I had the Shuttlecraft,

which I still have. and stuff like that, and

I also had a bunch of the figures, like I had,

like, Locutus of Borg, I had all the command

crew, stuff like that, and I had the phaser and

the com badge. Never had, and I think I had the

tricorder, but I never had the medical tricorder.

So a lot of me in Star Trek was a lot of merch.

Later on, as I'd start to get older and... Video

rental stores would open up to me. I was able

to rent more and more tapes But I started getting

into the video games because my school had Apple

twos or something and I remember playing Star

Trek the 25th anniversary I think that was the

one I played and I remember playing that but

I've But one of the best memories I have was

playing Star Trek Starfleet Command on my old

compact Presario and it was just some of the

most fun I've ever had. It's just being able

to command different starships, to command boarding

parties, marines. I remember playing Birth of

the Federation as well, which took things into

the next generation era. My favorite past time

in that was waiting for the board to come, doing

everything wrong possibly and watching my place

get assimilated or to get my ass kicked. just

because it was fun to watch. I remember being

absolutely terrible at that game. I might be

better at it now that I'm older, but I'm not

entirely sure. Well, Ryan, what about you? Where

do things in Star Trek start with you? The main

point or the main one for me, I remember my parents

made a big deal with Star Trek The Next Generation

when it premiered and I watched a bit of it,

but I wasn't super into it. I got into it really

in 1991 in December with Star Trek 6 the undiscovered

country and went to the theater with my parents

and I remember I was blown away by it I loved

it. So I sat down the first thing I did was tape

all of the original series episodes as They aired

on television and watch all that then I started

watching Next Generation because it was in heavy

syndication and it was rerun an awful lot And

yeah, just from there I stuck with it. I went

back and like watched each of the movie there

movies but At the time of course there were five

of them. So See mine was way shorter now you

know Quickly now that you mentioned just some

of the original movies. I remember our cable

guy our guy Really wanted to show off to me But

I remember one of the movies he pirated for me

was Star Trek six the undiscovered country and

I just remember the seat the shot of the scene

where all the Klingons are they're in space Gravity's

been cut and they shoot the guy you just see

the pink blood just spurred out of them. I Remember

that scene very very very vividly And what else

for the original stuff. I remember a lot on TV.

I remember, for some reason, in the 80s, the

movie to show was Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home.

Just whenever they showed a Star Trek movie,

it was always that, or it was the search for

Spock. I wouldn't see Wrath of Khan until grade

nine. And the weirdest way I came about seeing

that And I remember this super clearly. I was

riding the bus on the way home, which was like

a good like half hour ride home for me back then.

And I'm listening to my good old Walkman. And

there's a line in a Bare Naked Ladies song, oddly

enough called Grade 9, and they talk about, I

should have stayed up studying instead I watched

Wrath of Khan. And I remember sitting there thinking,

you know, I've never seen that. I'm going to

go to the video store right now. So I remember

jumping off the bus right near the video store

on the way home. They could fuck it. I'm going.

So I remember grabbing that, grabbing Rathacon.

Now I'm thinking, all right, cool. And I've got

it now. How the hell am I getting home? Because

this was before the age of cell phones. So, yeah,

that was a fun conversation with my 80 year old

grandparents. But yeah, I remember I wasn't always

hype. Kirk. I mean, I remember having many arguments

with my teacher who was better Kirk or Picard.

And I think I liked Picard more just because

the technology in the next generation spoke more

to me. Plus, I'd seen more of TNG as opposed

to the original series. But like I was saying

earlier, Me and the original series had not become

really acquainted up until we decided to do this

topic show. And over the course of the month,

I've watched probably about 10 episodes so far.

And I realized, I think for me to get this show

or for me to appreciate it, I had to be at just

the right age. Cuz like I said growing up I'd

seen a few episodes here and there the only other

episode that stuck with me was I can't remember

what it was called But there was a guy like Q

Trillane I think was the character's name and

he was based Yeah, and that was the only other

episode that stuck with me Squire of Gothos And

the only reason I saw that is because I was going

to anime north that weekend and we had to kill

time until the bus came but Yeah, it wasn't until

Ryan gave me like here watch these five or ten

episodes and Tell me what you think and now that

I'm older starting to appreciate older kind of

television I'm realizing maybe I should be more

into the series and what I originally thought

I mean going back and watching Some of the TNG

episodes. They are fucking atrocious All mostly

first season and second season. Yeah, the first

two seasons are bad There are some bad ones sprinkled

out through the other ones, but not as many That

me or you that was me I got up and closed my

blinds. All right, isn't that exciting for the

listeners? Literally in my case So yeah, I recommend

a couple episodes to you for me Quickly enter

straight into original series stuff. There's

two episodes that very much encompass what i

think star trek is about and they're both from

the first season which is not a coincidence because

again i think it was they were trying to define

what trek is that kind of thing the first one

is balance of terror balance of terror was the

eighth not eighth episode aired but i think it

was the eighth episode made in any way That episode

is the Romulan commander who's actually played

by Mark Leonard who would go on to play Spock's

dad has the first Romulan ship with a fully realized

cloaking device and attack a number of Federation

outposts along the neutral zone and it looks

like they're going to start a war and Kirk's

got to decide whether or not He's going to chase

after them and it's the first time that anyone

sees what a Romulan looks like And of course,

they look a lot like mr. Spock which leads to

some xenophobia and It was kind of it's a number

of different things that going on at once which

Trek does really well and A there real life issues

here namely xenophobia not to mention, you know

war And sadly, by the way, those are two issues

that we still have today, which is really depressing

that we haven't learned fuck all in 50 years

now. Everything is balanced really well in this

and there's some really good action scenes particularly

in the remastered version but one of the some

of the stuff that always stuck with me was the

Romulan commander who also didn't want a war

and at the end of the episode it's the one where

we get that great line where he says you know

in another universe I could have called you through

called you friend and You realize that they're

not all that unlike the Romulan commander didn't

want war Kirk didn't want war and Yeah, I mean

the theme of the episode is that your enemy is

not always that far off from you So that was

one the other one that's always stuck with me

is the devil in the dark Which is a much later

episode near the end of the first season and

that's the episode with the horda and it sticks

with me because you've got this monster that's

uh well let's be honest it's a giant carpet but

anyway in theory if you're willing to use your

imagination it's something that's not pleasant

to look at it's dangerous etc etc and supposedly

you know it's killing miners just because and

Kirk and company end up making peace with it

and they realize it's actually peaceful creature

and it can be helpful etc, etc, but it's very

Star Trek in You know don't necessarily fear

the unknown. It was just a misunderstanding kind

of thing and they're able to negotiate peace

Versus running around and just you know slaughtering

it And I don't know for me those two things very

much encompass a lot of Star Trek There's a lot

of other great episodes. I remember well I mean

I was a huge fan of space seed as a kid which

would lead into the wrath of Khan Geez yeah,

there's so many good episodes you mentioned troubles

triples, which everybody I think loves that was

a fun episode another fun episode that I feel

like doesn't get enough Credit is a piece of

the action That's the essentially the gangster

planet if you want to call it that That's a funny

episode. I enjoy that. You know, there's fun

stuff like the Doomsday Machine, which is terrific

remastered. We'll get into some of the remastered

stuff later on when we get into merch. The Tholian

Web, which is a terrific episode that very much

displays the Kirk Spock McCoy friendship. That's

how I always kind of viewed the original series

and that is you've got the three best friends

in the entire galaxy going down to the shittiest

planets possible on a weekly basis and One of

the things with the original series and we'll

touch on this with the movies is if you can get

at least the characters right particularly Kirk

Spock and McCoy You can get a half decent episode

just from that pretty much every time The characters

in the original series are actually pretty strong.

It's just they weren't focused on a lot, i .e.

your bit players, like Sulu, Chekov, etc, etc.

But when you actually give them something to

do, the characters work really well, and a lot

of them wouldn't be fleshed out until the movies.

One of the things I did like is, like you mentioned,

some of these characters get a little bit more

fleshed out. One of my favorite characters was

Chekov. And just how much he got to do over the

course of the movies, as you see him do a lot

more there than he ever really did in the series.

Yeah, he was kind of a Russian, you know, he

made the Russian joke in frequent episodes of

the series. Another person that I never felt

Ohura was as fleshed out as she could be. No,

and she she was kind of the either captain I'm

frightened or hailing frequencies open depending

on the episode And again more to do in the films

Actually, just go straight into the movies here

at least the original series one as well The

other person I'll say that got fleshed out a

lot more in the films is Kirk himself. Well yeah

because like in the other one he just had this

like swagger and this confidence about him it

wasn't until the movies you saw him as a more

three -dimensional character. Well he was shown

to be human like in this series he was Captain

Horatio Hornblower and he was always perfect

and Occasionally he'd be shown to be conflicted

like in balance of terror, but he still always

made the right calls etc etc The movies humanized

them and one of the flaws with the first film

And there are plenty of them with the motionless

picture, but Kirk is still kind of the infallible

guy. He makes a number of different mistakes,

but nobody calls him on her Like Will Dekker,

there should have been more conflict in that

movie considering Will Dekker is the son of Matt

Dekker who died in the Doomsday Machine episode.

But he never calls Kirk on taking over the command

and not knowing stuff and it's referenced a few

times. But I mean, Kirk's still shown to be the

hero and be able to figure everything out. And

a lot of the relationships in that movie just

felt off and then you combine it with the ridiculous

number of pointless effect scenes Which look

great, but didn't do a lot for the movie unfortunately

and just The film meandered too much It's it's

weird because it would probably be a half decent

episode, but it didn't make a good two -hour

plus film yeah it was just like the first movie

is the one i absolutely dread watching because

it's just so long and nothing happens i think

it's i don't know it stands up fairly well it's

not a it's just not all that rewatchable um it's

not horrible but it's not very good either and

just i don't know i mean wrath of con does pretty

much everything a lot better And it was smart

to bring back a villain from the original series.

Ricardo Montalban is terrific in it. And it was

the one that very much humanized Kirk. Kirk makes

mistakes in it. It costs lives. The themes of

it are what... keep it going today, and I think

Rathacon 30, 40 years from now is still going

to be remembered as an absolute classic of science

fiction because the themes of it are very human.

The themes are loss and getting older, feeling

useless, that kind of thing, which are things

that everybody feels at certain points in their

lives. And it's one of the main reasons why that

movie holds up so well. There isn't a lot in

it that I can't think that really Sticks out

as terrible. It's it's one of those movies I'm

really glad that I saw when I did as I think

it set me down a certain path of expecting more

from my sci -fi I Guess and it's gotten, you

know, probably When you're talking memorable

science fiction scenes, it's one of the top It's

top five for sure if not one or two the death

of Spock Plus it's got so many quotable lines

out of it Yeah, like that you shall always and

forever be my friend the needs of the many out

with the needs of the few Stuff like that and

it's one of the first times I can remember a

beloved sci -fi character that I had Something

of an attachment to because I really like I've

always liked Spock I've always considered him

in data two of my favorite Star Trek characters

And I see I didn't know see at that time. I hadn't

be I hadn't seen Star Trek 3 yet So I didn't

like I didn't know how they brought him back.

So Watching him die. I was like what the fuck

because I knew he was alive in Star Trek 4 But

I didn't know how that process happened But yeah,

and I can't think of Like in terms of 80s sci

-fi, that's one of those really really important

moments and then pretty much Across sci -fi as

a whole is the death of Spock But yeah, I kind

of wonder Would I'm just gonna pose a question

for you. Do you think the series might have been

better had he stayed dead? How the series have

gone forward without him because I don't think

so I mean the original plan was to go back to

television with Star Trek phase two As much as

I hate to say it's like the phase two scripts

that we've seen We're not good. Most of them

have been translated to Star Trek the next generation

and It's yeah, they weren't very good is the

biggest issue I don't know, you know It you know,

you're paying playing a what -if kind of game.

We wouldn't have gotten the trilogy of Star Trek

movies, which was the first time they had attempted

anything like that Generally the film was super

or films were super super standalone. So were

the episodes nothing kind of carried over This

was the first time they had done that Yeah, and

Now what do you think about how Trek movies have

the... I don't want to call it a curse because

I don't know the right word. Where odds are bad,

evens are good. So I'm not sure about that because

Star Trek 3, to a certain extent, breaks that.

It's better than... Yeah, and it's better than

some of the later even movies. Star Trek 3 is,

especially if you watch the three movies together,

it's fairly strong. It was one of the first movies

to truly give absolutely everyone at least something

to do Not to mention, you know, we're talking

about memorable sequences We had the death of

Spock in the previous film. This one's got another

great one The Kirk and crew stealing the enterprise

stuff is fantastic Yeah, that is a great sequence

from start to finish This three is a good movie.

I'm not I think one of the things that hurts

it is the whole bringing somebody back to life

thing is exceptionally difficult to do, period.

I mean, there's not a lot of somebody comes back

to life comic book stories that are really, really

good either because there's a lot of things you've

got to get past just to do it. But in terms of

It fits the other, it fits the themes of Wrath

of Khan really well as well. We get more loss.

This time Kirk loses the Enterprise and his son.

And in the end, there's at least some level of

hope because he regains his best friend. Not

to mention, you know, McCoy is okay in the end

as well because at one point it looks like maybe

he'd lose him. It just, it's still... It's a

solid film. It works way better in terms of the

trilogy, though, than it does as a standalone.

I never felt the weight of Kirk's son's death,

though. No, they skipped over it too... Yeah,

it feels like they skipped over it too much.

We didn't have enough time to know him either,

because, I mean, to be blunt, I felt more watching

this movie at the destruction of the Enterprise

than I ever did at Kirk's son. Exactly. But the

destruction of the enterprise is a sad moment

for the series and for fans, I think. But, yeah,

Kirk's son is just kind of glossed over. Now,

to a certain extent, too, you could say part

of that Kirk never really knew him either. That's

fair. I mean, he meets his son in Wrath of Khan

for the first time and forever, it seems like,

or maybe ever. We don't know for certain. And,

yeah, he dies. Yeah, and I should note as we

get into Star Trek 4 now that one of the things

that I like about Khan and one of the reasons

he holds up well as a movie villain or a science

fiction villain period is, man, he's got to be

one of the more successful ones. Mean in terms

of what he managed. Yes, he dies, but the original

enterprise is destroyed because of him Spock

dies because of him. They almost start an interstellar

war because I mean the Klingons are and by the

way, rightfully so Not happy about the existence

of Genesis Which, by the way, is something I

really liked about Star Trek 2. It makes sense

that the Klingons would not be pleased that the

Federation have something that could literally

wipe out all life on a planet and replace it.

There's a great line in Star Trek 2 where McCoy

asks Spock, you know, do you mind telling me

who the right hands are? Terms of who should

actually have this we know the Federation is

generally good and we know Kirk and his crew

wouldn't use it for nefarious means But there's

plenty of people who would around the galaxy

and it's a horrible thing to have even exist

So I liked that that was something that they

get into again in Star Trek 4 that the Genesis

I the Genesis device despite being basically

a MacGuffin invented for Star Trek 2 It's not

It wasn't a good idea not something the Federation

should have worked on I might argue that I can

see the practical applications, but obviously

the chance to turn this thing into a genocidal

super weapon Yeah, which somebody would inevitably

do In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if in some

novel somewhere Section 31 has a Genesis device

just in case. It wouldn't surprise me. There's

probably more destructive weapons like Borg Nano

bombs or some bullshit. No, the Genesis device

is still the most destructive thing in Trek,

like even in today. We can get into books later,

of which I've read roughly 75 % of the Star Trek

novels now, but anyway. Holy shit. I've read

a lot of them. I've read maybe four or five.

I remember where Kirk used or some reason the

Borg bring back Kirk. I remember reading that.

Yeah, there was in the Shatner, the Shatner verse

series. To be fair, it's still better than Generations.

We'll get into that thing much later. Oh, God.

Star Trek 4 is finishing the trilogy. This is

one that I remember because my parents loved.

They had gone to see it in theater. I wouldn't

see it until much later, but It was I can't remember

I don't think I had seen trouble with tribbles

yet by the time I saw it and it was the first

time the trick Did comedy on a large scale? Really?

Well, I mean there was their comedic moments

in the other movies but Star Trek 4 for the most

part is kind of a fun Comedy again like the best

of Trek and I mentioned it with Ratha Khan it

deals with some real -life issues in terms of

you know, the environment and How we treat things

and the fact we're still wiping out whales Which

again good job. We've learned our lesson clearly

but Yeah, voyage home was For me, anyway, it

was the first time I thought Star Trek could

just be straightforward fun while still having

that message behind it. One of the things I liked

about Star Trek 4 is it felt like it was more

accessible than any Star Trek movie before it.

Yes. And I think the reason I jumped onto that

one. I didn't feel like I had to know ages upon

ages of history other than the fact that Spot

came back from the dead. It was a good standalone,

in some ways, Star Trek movie that didn't have

to rely on space battles. It was a good, if goofy,

environment. It's a nice slice of the cultural

80s. You couldn't get away with making that movie

today because it's such an environmental message.

It's jammed right in there. I like how it's a

nice snapshot of what life was like at the time,

even from the way people dress, the way people

talk, that punk on the bus, which I love that

scene. That was great. For years, me and my friends

will say, double dumb ass on you too stuff like

that. It's just it was fun. And that's my favorite

is anytime I go to somebody's place or even at

work on occasion as soon as I get to a workstation

or the computer or whatever, I'll go Hello computer.

Oh, that's hilarious. I remember For years to

just the same value of nuclear vessels with my

friend Jared because he was another big Star

Trek now that see that's another guy I forgot

to mention Who really influenced me for like

Star Trek was to try and get me into some of

the older stuff? But yeah, there was just there

was just such a funness to that And once again,

Star Trek 4 came along at just the right time

in my life to influence how Star Trek would affect

me kind of later on, how I get deeper in the

sci -fi, less in the kung fu movies, more in

the sci -fi movies. Because I remember in high

school, I was very much in a transitional period

trying to figure out, what is my jam? What's

the thing I'm really going to kind of gravitate

towards? And sci -fi almost won out every single

time. But there was a while where I was like

totally into the kung fu scene. and everything,

but... Man, these shows would be really different

if that had continued. Man, I want... Man, we

should almost do like a kung -fu month, but I

can't bring those out names. I don't know if

Andrew and I would be on this show. So they tried

to continue the fun with Star Trek V, The Final

Frontier. This is the one I've seen the least.

Did it work? Join us when we come right back.

No wait. No it didn't Yeah, I mean now though

The best there are two good things I have to

say about this movie one is it got the characters

right and the Kirk Spock McCoy relationship is

actually pretty well done in this and If you

get that right you have at least a little something

to your film, but it gets nothing else right

I mean The idea that the Federation flagship

would be a complete piece of junk really bugged

me Especially by the way after it looked fine

in Star Trek 4 Side note by the way the refit

Constitution class starships, which is what the

original was starting with Motion picture and

then enterprise a is in this one and six and

four My favorite spaceship design ever just looks

gorgeous Anyway back to this movie. The other

good thing I have to say about it is the director

commentary where Shatner basically does a Mia

culpa what went wrong with everything is pretty

entertaining Other than that. Oh, there's no

much to recommend this Remember nothing other

than what does God need with the Starship which

by the way is a great line I should have mentioned

that all right. There's three good things in

this Because it's the only thing that's the only

other good one good thing about it. Yeah, this

was not oh This was just not good at all Yeah,

I mean just there there's so little to recommend

about it. A lot of the jokes fall completely

flat and just make characters look like complete

idiots. Absolutely. There's just, there's, I

also remember randomly Uhura dancing at the desert

and going, what the fuck? Yeah, the fan dance.

Just so goofy and stupid and ow, it hurts my

head. The other issue I think too is and part

of this is Shatner's You know ego, let's be honest

Kirk goes back to being the perfect guy again

and If that was a step backwards as well. I Don't

know. I mean after they had made the character

more nuanced and everything else He just jumps

back into being original series TV show Kirk

That, I think, hurt it a little bit, too. And

just nothing works. I mean, sidewalk comes out

of left field. We didn't even know Spock had

any other siblings. You'd think somebody would

have mentioned it at some point. I want to say

they reference no way. Yeah, you're right. Because

I'm trying to think. Trust me, they never reference.

Nope. And they don't mention him since either.

Like afterwards, this film was kind of forgotten

about. The books occasionally reference it a

lot of the times the book reference it to make

fun of it It just wasn't good. All right, Star

Trek six Six is the one I remember probably best

because it very much influenced me. I think it

actually works fairly well as a standalone You

don't need a whole lot of history. There's Kirk's

hatred slash racism towards The Klingons which

by the way was a nice touch it makes sense that

he would dislike them and he references the death

of David in this movie It's weird. I feel more

for the death of David in this film that I did

in Star Trek 3 So good job with that Kirk is

shown to be racist in this movie, which gives

him a Unfortunately more human edge like he can't

get over the fact that the cling ons may eventually

be allies. In this film it was timed well because

in next generation we were always wondering gee

how did the cling ons end up being the federation's

friends they're so different. Can a thing and

just everything in this movie worked well. It's

it again parallels real life and to be fair it

could parallel real life today And I think it's

one of the reasons it holds up. Well It was in

the shadow of the Cold War originally But I mean

we still kind of have a Cold War with a number

of different places right now So yeah, this was

it's still a really good movie and holds up really

well Valeris kind of comes out of left field

but I'm happy that she was used because the original

plan for anyone who doesn't know was Valeris

was supposed to be Lieutenant Savick, reprised

by Kirsty Alley. In the end they couldn't come

to an agreement and she was too busy anyway to

end up working on this and I'm not sure Savick

would have worked. It would certainly would have

hurt more, I just don't know that I don't know.

I don't know if it would fit in with her character

to hate Klingons that much so yeah, they came

up with a new character and Yeah, the movie in

general. I just like it and I liked the kind

of whodunit portion to it that It's not just

your straightforward Star Trek film. There's

some mystery to be solved and that was something

they really hadn't done much This is another

one now. This is one of the Star Trek movies.

I've unfortunately seen the least I think I've

only seen this maybe maybe twice Which I should

really kind of change that. Yeah, it holds up.

Well, I recommend it highly I remember a lot

of scenes from it, but I can't remember what

context I remember Christopher Plummer being

a wonderful bad guy Yes, he was the Klingon commander

there Chang. I remember Michael Dorn be in this.

I remember Yeah, presumably as a as an ancestor,

but he plays Colonel Wharf and that's supposed

to be Tuvok's character in this, right? Well

Tuvok was Somewhere in Yeah, he was on the Excelsior,

but I mean that was retroactive like Tim Ross

is not in this film Nope. Huh. Well, then. Christian

Slater is in this movie. Oh my God, I forgot

about that. Anyone who doesn't know, Christian

Slater is a huge Star Trek fan. And yeah, they

had him in this movie briefly as a communications

officer on board the Excelsior. And he asks Sulu

about whether or not they should report, you

know, contacting Enterprise, basically. Now I

kind of want to dig out my Blu -ray and watch

this after we're done the show here. I think

I might. It's a good one. Yeah. And this movie's

held up well. The climax of the film is a lot

of fun with Enterprise trying to find a cloaked

Klingon ship, the first one that can fire while

cloaked and just, yeah, solid film overall. and

it was a great send -off for the original series

crew, which they subsequently ruined by making

Star Trek Generations. Yeah, we'll talk about

that. Yeah, that's the first next -gen movie.

So Next Generation, this series, for the most

part, I'd say holds up fairly well, except for

the first two seasons. Now, it's not to say there

aren't good episodes in the first two seasons.

Measure of a Man and Cue Who are absolute must

-watches. Absolutely. I like Skin of Evil because

it kills Tasha Yar. That was the end of the first

season. It didn't. It just wasn't a very good

episode, though. Yeah, but I liked how it had

a lasting impact, though. And I like how they

even reference it years later. Yeah. Which is

kind of fun. Um I think I have another good episode.

Did they? I don't think they did many holodeck

adventures during the first couple seasons, did

they? Uh I mean the holodeck was there. Holodeck

was there. Oh boy. Um there was, you know, there's

stuff like there's the Dixon Hill uh big goodbye

episode in the first season. Which was a fun

one and actually won, I believe it won an Emmy

for Trek or won some type of award. It was the

first time. Now granted, it was still for technical

stuff rather than, you know, best drama or anything.

But yeah, that was first season. There certainly

were adventures on it, but yeah, the whole. The

holodeck going wrong wouldn't be perfected until

Voyager, but It didn't work all the time in next

-gen either. No because we had professor Moriarty

show up a Few times we had twice. Yeah, he was

a fun villain though Yeah, that was another second

season episode where he was first established

and then he returns much later in the series

That's something else. I think the next generation

did they had really memorable one or two episode

villains Although they would establish long -standing

villains like Q and I wouldn't even call Q necessarily

a bad guy I Mean he certainly caused trouble.

Oh, yeah, he causes trouble Yeah, next Jan established

probably some of the better villains. We had

the Borg from it We had commander Tomalock who

was a returning or recurring role played by Andreas

Katsalis best known the ambassador's your car

on Babylon 5 But he was a Romulan captain who?

Appeared fairly often including in the finale

which was a really nice nod that they brought

him back for all good things So yeah, there were

characters like that We had Duras who would play

a fairly large role or his family did throughout

the series as well Know yeah, it was a good show

for a show with so much peace in it. There were

some decent villains There's a ton of great episodes

in This I try to avoid for anyone who's wondering

I try to avoid the ones that people everybody

knew there that everybody already talks about

all the time That's why I didn't bring up like

the city on the edge of forever for the original

series Everybody knows that one next generation.

Obviously like best of both worlds. Everybody

knows it Some of the underrated ones I love Darmok,

which I think everybody is referenced at one

point or another in their life if they're a sci

-fi fan Yeah Is a fun one Redemption part one

and two doesn't get enough love. I really liked

like the Klingon Episodes in TNG that really

fleshed them out one of the ones I like because

I love dealing with parallel universe. It's a

seventh season episode fairly Fairly early on,

I think. It's called Parallels. Warf's coming

back from a bat left tournament, and for some

reason gets sucked into a parallel dimension.

You just see how everything kind of worked out.

My favorite of that, you see the Enterprise D

absolutely trashed, and it's Ryker on the bridge,

and he's saying the Borg are everywhere. They

still got Picard. They've... They got everybody

we're all yeah. Yeah, it's sort of a what happened

if the Borg one Yeah, that was one of the best

episodes of seven of the seventh season, which

was kind of weak. But anyway That was a still

really good episode by the way another That's

another seventh season episode the best episode

for me out of that seventh season is another

underrated one Which is really important right

now and that is the episode lower decks and it's

important now because apparently Star Trek discovery

is going to be very similar in that it concentrates

on the sort of lower ranking officers on board

the ship and Lower decks was just a terrific

standalone episode where we see a number of characters

on the Enterprise D and You know how they relate

to one another and what it's like kind of serving

on board the ship when you're not the main guy

on the bridge every week or Command etc. Etc.

That was just a really good episode I Think I

remember that episode. I'm trying to remember

But yeah, like one was like an engineering guy

and it's just them or okay Yeah, and it's just

there. They're like every day nothing extraordinary

happens. Well something extraordinary happens

I don't want to ruin it for anybody, but I highly

yeah, that's a terrific episode seventh season

There's just The middle of this series, and when

I get to merchandise, I'll mention this, but

I picked up all of the... In a fairly short period

of time, I've gotten each of the Trek series

that have been released on Blu -ray. And so I

rewatched Next Generation fairly recently. And

I mean, one thing that really stood out to me

is the middle seasons of this show hold up really,

really well. There are very few weak episodes

Like season to season. This was a terrific show

and for that and a number of reasons Star Trek

Next Generation is probably my favorite to the

Star Trek series I wouldn't say it's the best

Star Trek series because that's actually the

next one we'll get to But for me, or at least

to me anyway, I should say. But yeah, I love

this show. There's just episode after episode

I love. And a lot of the ones that, again, people

don't always mention, stuff like the drumhead,

which was a great episode where Picard is on

trial and is super, super relevant today, is

a great one. I mean, even the episodes that were...

Not as well like there's one episode that I like

because I think it's kind of fun where Picard

runs into I think it's like he Yep, I'm trying

to remember how it it ends with the Klingons

the Cardassians and Someone else they're all

looking For these pieces of some ancient tablar

or whatever. Yes an ancient race that essentially

seeded the Yeah, the galaxy and it's sort of

it's meant to explain why a lot of the Star Trek

races Are yeah humanoid and that kind of thing.

Let's be honest. I mean in real life. The actual

reason is just you know because is because No,

I was gonna say is because like Budget constraints

and you can't have like, you know things with

18 limbs running around that was the chase and

that's from a season 6 episode That's that's

one that I really really really not that I watch

Star Trek way too much Jesus Christ Ryan you

can name episodes. That's yes nuts. Um Try to

think if there's any shows I can do that with

fuck No, I can do it with any of the treks and

with Babylon 5. Those are the Ones I can do I

can do it with Breaking Bad sometimes actually

most of the time now anyway Next on Breaking

Bad I feel like a bad nerd next to you some days

Some days. Oh, so anyway So yeah, the next generation

ran seven seasons and if you haven't watched

it it is First of all, I mean it broke records.

It's Still probably the most popular science

fiction series of all time Actually, not still

probably let's just go with it is I mean its

ratings were Monday night football ask it was

in syndication and it was doing way over a 20

in the ratings when it originally aired so it

was popular and It's still shown in pretty much

every country every language today So yeah, go

watch it if you haven't already The movies for

next generation you remember back when I said

for a show so much peace They had some good villains

might have been a little too much peace for the

movies unfortunately because that was one of

the problems they had they had to manufacture

villains and That was an issue Open up with Star

Trek Generations the seventh movie I remember

being so hyped Yeah, I wanted so much to like

it I've this was one of the first movies that

I had magazines and stuff. Yes kids Before the

internet used to get like things in print type

movies Yeah, I followed the development of this

as much as I could because the idea of Kirk meeting

Picard and everything was Was just terrific to

me And oh Boy, I mean did you have magazines

a star log about this? Yes, I still do I still

have some of them. Um, oh I mean, I love Malcolm

McDowell I love it when he's cast as bad guys

now because you see how far the mighty have fallen

But if anybody takes fun in their roles, it's

him. Oh, McDowell is wonderful. Yeah, and he's

actually a really good actor But he just kind

of chooses stuff that yeah is fun to him and

that kind of thing and there's nothing wrong

with that I mean Bruce Campbell Yeah, Bruce Campbell

does the same thing and pretty much I need a

car payment. Let's go do X Mean I I don't know

how much money McDowell has probably quite a

bit He is the craziest Going off on a tangent

here, but anyway, he is one of the craziest resumes

you'll ever see this is a guy who worked with

like James Dean and you know a lot of like the

greatest people in the history of Hollywood and

Knew them and that kind of thing like his career

is nuts And he played Tolian Soren in Star Trek

Generations, which was not one of his better...

Yeah, for a movie that was supposed to be the

meeting of the two greatest captains of all time,

it starts with them eating bacon. That's how

they meet. At Kirk's cabin. Kirk flat out shouldn't

have been in this movie, period. I'm getting

back into the production of this film for people

who don't know Leonard deem way was originally

supposed to direct he read the script for this

and hated it he wanted yeah, he wanted to rewrite

and never got it and In the years since the people

who've worked on it admitted Should have let

him do it, but a lot of them were coming off

of television. They didn't know that's kind of

how Hollywood works that The people who directed

should probably be involved in the script process

This is a problem. We'll get into with the later

movies again, but anyway so yeah, he left and

they got a first -time director for it and Who

I don't even remember man, like I know my Star

Trek, but I don't even remember who directed

this Generations Yeah, so I mean it just So the

next issue was I mean Since he didn't like the

script at all Nimoy didn't return because he

was supposed to be it was supposed to be sponk

and McCoy DeForest Kelly didn't like the script

either which by the way when most of your actors

are going this script sucks I'm not doing this

movie that should probably be a sign that maybe

you should do some rewrites But whatever they

stuck with it I Don't know where to start because

everything just didn't work. Well in this movie.

It just feels disjointed Picard's family who

we saw In well in the episode titled family,

which by the way is another great unheralded

episode of Star Trek the next generation randomly

die in a fire Which is interesting because I've

been told to do that so many times on the internet

but they just get you know off off -screen and

we get an upset Picard and In the midst of this

we have the meeting with Kirk like we've got

so many disparate ideas That don't merge together

quite well and we get the enterprise D is destroyed

and that was frustrating too because the real

life issue was They just couldn't reuse the sets

What yeah the lighting and everything for the

enterprise D just didn't work well on a film

Camera and film budget and everything else. So

they just decided like yeah, we'll just build

a new bridge for it So they trashed the ship

Because the enterprise e -bridge is yet another

sort of redo of the enterprise a slash refit

enterprise sets So yeah, they just blew up enterprise

D This just Yeah, not much of it works and I

mean you get the Dewarra sisters are in it to

kind of tie it to the TV show but Yeah, they

were never super serious or anything and not

to mention The idea that this ancient bird of

prey is going to blow up the Enterprise D was

kind of silly Although of course they get the

shield Frequency from you know, you're planting

Geordi. Yeah I don't know like I Don't have a

lot good to say about this movie. It just it

feels Yeah, it feels like it feels like just

none of the ideas worked really well. It just

yeah It just I mean what should have been an

amazingly fan fiction II movie turned out to

be just bland Like nothing exciting happened

like I said like or like you said the ancient

bird of prey kicking the shit Out of one of the

most advanced ships in the Federation fleet.

I don't friggin think so There's just I don't

know and plus having Kirk and Picard that should

have been a lot more epic than hey Let's go ride

horses and fight some old guy and the biggest

issue was Kirk's death I mean one of the biggest

things that hurts it Kirk's death is terrible

in this film and It's funny that years later,

Han Solo's death would kind of mirror it. Did

they both fall off a bridge? Yeah, they both

end up on a bridge and end up falling off. I

would argue at least Han Solo had something memorable

to say before his death other than, oh. No, it's

oh my, but anyway. Oh my, or whatever, either

way it's still sad. Anyway, yeah, it just...

It didn't work and I mean, it's funny because

everybody that worked on this movie knows it

didn't work and nobody kind of stopped it or

did anything they originally have him getting

shot in the back and falling off the bridge which

also is pretty shitty death just It didn't work

and I think that when you kill an iconic character

it's Gotta really mean something and it didn't

in this movie a And be I think for somebody like

Kirk and I feel like you could argue this for

Han Solo This is a discussion for another podcast

but It's more fun or it's better to leave it

open and just leave it alone Like I would have

preferred not knowing how Kirk died than to have

it happen on screen in this movie And now Finality

to it as well. Yeah, and it didn't jive with

the rest of series now granted We're talking

Star Trek 5, but I mean Kirk says I've always

known I would die alone How much better would

his death have been if he dies on you know? He

he has the crew Evacuated and he goes down on

the bridge of Enterprise a or something like

that Like to me that would have worked a lot

better. He dies like on the bridge of a starship,

which to be honest is probably where he belongs

for it. Even if he had actually died in that

opener on board the Enterprise B, at least he

dies in space on a ship. Yeah, he dies doing

something heroic. Like, yeah, it's just he still

dies doing something heroic. It just it works

a lot better for somebody like Kirk to have him.

Die on board a starship because that's where

we knew him the best I Don't know very little

that film worked pretty much everything worked

in the next movie. Oh god yelling first contacts

a movie I That was that one time I could quote

that that movie almost line for line and first

contact is one We talked about standalone Star

Trek movies first contact is one you could show

to anybody Oh, yeah, and they'll probably enjoy

it. It is probably the best standalone Star Trek

movie It may not be the best film. It's right

up there with them, but oh Yeah, it's got great

villains. It's a movie that requires maybe 30

seconds of explanation Yeah, and not even because

if you watch the opening sequence you see Picard

as a bore Yeah, having memories of it and he

mentions like they're still in my head Yeah,

like it's just it's one of those movies. I remember

being so retarded Excited to see this movie.

Like I remember waiting at the theater three

hours early with with my friend Wayne We had

this long -standing tradition during high school.

We weren't as close but whenever there was a

Star Trek movie We dropped our shit. We were

there hours before this this thing opened and

it First contact reignited my love for Trek during

high school Like I remember going out and buying

the last unicorn role -playing game After I saw

this movie, I think Or maybe I know I bought

the card game. I got into the card game for quite

heavily The Borg are my Probably in my top five

sci -fi villains of all time like I love them

When they crossed over with Doctor Who and they

had the Borg and the dogs and the Cybermen That's

my dream team of cybernetic bad guys right there

Yeah, the Borg just works really well as a villain

and again, it has real -life implications and

that's why it works because we all Sort of have

that fear somewhere in us of technology taking

over that kind of thing And it literally happens

with with the Borg in this movie and in the TV

series. They were well established I just there's

a lot of great in this movie Time travels actually

used well, which doesn't always work in Star

Trek but worked in this one It just Everybody

you know, James Cromwell is excellent as Zefram

Cochran and just everything worked in this film

and Getting you know Jonathan Frakes to direct

You know, they talk about it in making ofs and

everything Everything just worked from the start

the script and everything fell right into place.

There were no issues Just you know, this is A

terrific science fiction film period. It's a

solid action movie as well. It just it works

on pretty much every level Yeah, like it's You're

never bored. The special effects are utterly

fantastic Yeah, and it's just It's a great atmosphere.

It's a great popcorn sci -fi movie, too like

It's It's a movie where I think you can even

show a non -Star Trek fan. I think they'll probably

get something out of it. Yes. That's why I said

earlier that, yeah, this is one that you don't

even need to be a fan to enjoy this movie. Yeah.

Like, for example, my wife Blair doesn't like

Star Trek, but I've shown her some of the newer

stuff and she's been OK with it. Well, to be

fair, you keep showing her Voyager, so. Well,

she hates Voyager. Oh man, I like this man. It

should have her on so And actually in terms of

first contact, you know, one of the things will

say that we'll get into this more with Voyager

but one of the things I don't like about it is

when you overuse a villain too many times you

have to keep coming up with ways to beat them

and Russell T Davies really suffered this with

the Daleks culminating in a film where they're

spun around like tops and You know the Daleks

had to be rebuilt from the ground up because

they got overused. Yeah They got overused too

much and it ended up You know, like I said each

the villain ends up looking weak the more you

have him defeated by the heroes Voyager would

use the Borg 22 times, not counting two -parters.

If you count the two -parters as individual episodes,

that number goes up dramatically. That's way

too many times to have them beaten. I mean, by

the end of Voyager, the Borg look like idiots.

And again, I'll get into this with the show.

but I mean one of the things I love about this

movie is the border exceptionally credible threat

and It's and I'm bringing all this up because

one of the problems with next generation movies

We mentioned it with generations and we'll get

into it with the next two the villains just don't

work Well, I mean they either come out of left

field as Shinzon and the Romulan ship the the

hell's the name at the cemetery comes out of

left field or they're just not good villains

period and yeah the baku which and you know next

generation was a great tv series and it worked

better as a television show than films i think

that's pretty clear and a lot of that's because

while they're good tv show villains there just

wasn't that one there was no con the one big

bad for next generation was the Borg or Q and

They eventually decided against using Q free.

All right, so getting into Insurrection the ninth

Star Trek movie Q was originally going to be

a villain in that Yes, and it would have been

a much better film now recollections on insurrection

very widely but I'm gonna go with freaks as Probably

the most accurate because in general he seems

to recollect the most about all of the movies

and You know Freak says that he wasn't involved

in this one He directed but he wasn't involved

in any of the script writing or anything like

that. That's a problem And Freaks apparently

wanted Q and wanted more ties to the television

series. That's not the direction they went. The

Baku and pretty much everything just absolutely

come out of left field. Except for the concept

of the Admiral being a douchebag. That was a

super Star Trek Next Generation thing. I swear,

like, if an Admiral shows up, there's a 70 %

chance there's douchebag in Star Trek Next Generation.

so the movie kept with that at least but nothing

else it just I Didn't like the back who I didn't

like that the enterprise II which is this super

advanced ship for the Federation Supposedly,

you know was created to help defeat the Borg

gets the shit kicked out of it by two shitty

back who ships This race that we've never even

heard of but apparently, you know, they make

good ships And then the overall concept for the

film the fountain of youth planets Yeah Ouch

I rewatched it a couple months ago. I when I

did my next -generation rewatch I rewatched all

the films and just I Don't know the the next

-gen movies are actually some I've seen the least

of with the exception of first contact Yeah,

I mean this the film generations more than I've

watched nemesis Yeah insurrection is They still

get the characters right at least My problem

with it or the biggest issue with it is it's

basically just a not great two -part episode

It really feels like an episode of Star Trek

as well, and it's not really a good thing It's

yeah, it just feels like a bad two -parter to

me yeah, I mean, I just don't have a lot to say

about it and I Don't know like yeah, I Feel so

bad because I loved next -gen as a series, but

the movies just didn't translate well And unfortunately

we get the film that absolutely destroyed the

whole even odd theory next because nemesis is

I would argue If you wanted to tell me Nemesis

is the worst Star Trek movie, I'm not certain

I would argue a whole lot with it, because it's

bad. It's basically Wrath of Khan for idiots.

I mean, even the music, they try to ape a lot

of James Horner stuff, particularly during Data's

death sequence. There's so much similar here.

The Romulans who should have been a great villain

for a Star Trek movie are completely underused

The only kind of positives about this A we got

a young Tom Hardy Yay, I like Tom Hardy. Yeah,

he was pre -inter shins on Yes, Tom Hardy is

the main villain Be the concept of duality and

your legacy with regards to Picard and having

a clone Was kind of neat the idea of Picard having

a fully grown clone was stupid but The concept

of The theme was not a bad idea your legacy that

kind of thing and they tied data into it as well

But everything just comes out of left field We

get before which is another Jesus. I mean Man,

I'm getting angry now. This is this was a bad

movie. I mean So I've only ever I've seen it

maybe twice Yeah, yeah, we get before who is

technically a predecessor to is apparently a

predecessor to data and a lot less sophisticated

and I just yeah, man. I don't even like talking

about this movie. Nothing worked for me The action

sequences are not good either Like this is the

first Star Trek that the action sequences probably

could have just been done on television I remember

the dune buggy. Oh for fuck. I mean, yeah, that

was great. I'm just And the idea that the Romulans

built this ship that's basically magic by the

way, like one thing about Star Trek is it's not

hard science fiction But it is very much science

fiction like one of the things that always bugs

me is people call Star Wars science fiction There's

no science in Star Wars I mean, you don't know

how anything works and if you've ever read the

Star Wars technical manuals, which are absolute

garbage because Basically the Death Star has

the strength of like nine sons, which how the

hell would that work? That doesn't even work.

There's no science at all to it With Trek at

least there's some I mean look at some of the

stuff that we've tried to do there's They are

still actively working on inventing warp drive.

We're still working on things like transporters

and to a certain extent they exist. The theory

for things like tractor beams actually exists.

Yeah, we're not building lightsabers or blasters

anytime soon. No, and tricorders are very much

in very early stages of production. There's actually

one that can measure your health based on your

breath now. That's those are pretty major things

and we got into like cell phones communicators

that kind of thing Well, this movie throws everything

out of the friggin window so we get the Scimitar

which is this magic like Romulan ship that apparently

they built in their spare time because they have

that much Stuff to do it's gigantic way bigger

than the Enterprise II It has like three times

the weapons it can fire when cloaked It's faster

It's got all this stuff that just would not work

and at least there was a reason for You know

the bird of prey being able to fire when cloaked

in Star Trek 6 and they bring up the fact that

it seems very difficult to Yeah, it seems very

difficult to wrap your head around that it works

and the Federation is really surprised cemetery

just kind of works for whatever reason I mean,

this movie was not directed by a Star Trek fan

or somebody who knew anything about Star Trek.

And nobody that worked on this film has anything

good to say about it, including the actors. I

mean, this movie just wasn't good and nothing

felt nothing resonated. Data's death. I felt

pissed off. I think that was just trying to get

out of it. Think so too, but remember, you know

Spock's death was Leonard DeMoy trying to get

out of it. You can still do it. Well Yeah, that's

true. That's true. And yeah, this was just everything

in this movie was absolutely miserable I think

after this Brent Spiner realized, you know if

I die shit Because they brought him back for

like They brought him back for Enterprise for

a couple episodes as his ancestor. Yeah, Eric

soon. So You're never really dead in Star Trek.

You're always gonna be your ancestor or clone

or robot or something Yeah, so Nemesis less said

about it the better not a big fan. So now we

you know leave movies behind for a while. Deep

Space Nine is one that you hadn't watched much.

Did you at least watch the episodes I told you

to watch? I watched Way of the Warrior where

they introduced Worf. Really enjoyed that. Yeah.

I watched the Tribbles one. I watched the pilot.

I watched the finale. I can't remember what the

episode was called. But it's where Garrick has

to fake a Romulan data rod in the pale moonlight,

which is, for my money, the best episode of Star

Trek. I absolutely adore it. I love that. Just

because it's a fake. Yeah. Yeah. Senators Vrenic,

not exactly the best actor, unfortunately. Are

you kidding? That man is a national treasure.

I love it. And then Andrew Lincoln. Was it is

that his name knows there's that rick from walking

dead. Yeah, andrew lincoln is rick from walking

dead What's the actor's name who plays garrick?

Oh garrick is uh, andrew robinson andy robinson.

Love that guy He like any episode of ds9 that

i've seen him in Just steals the scene. He's

in yeah garrick is wonderful. Um, and a There

were so many really good characters on Deep Space

Nine the stuff with and Garrick's Relationship

with everybody and the crew is fantastic his

relationship with his father that they explore

Just DS 9 did complex characters better than

any Trek series that would come before or after

and He was just These whole series is just really

really deep. There was a depth to it It holds

up quite well because of that Geez yeah, just

Damn it sure have watched the rest of the episodes.

There's a lot of standout episodes here This

is the series that brought us the Dominion War

Well, actually I would say because we're kind

of running a little long in the tooth here So

I kind of wouldn't mind doing a two -parter for

Star Trek if you don't mind talking about DS9,

Voyager, Enterprise, and beyond. Because DS9

is a series I want to see more of. It's a series

I gave the least amount of a chance to when I

was a kid. And it's not until since I've gotten

older, once again, appreciating Star Trek a little

bit more. You should have known it would run

long, because I can talk about Star Trek for

a week. Well, you see, that's what we're probably

going to do. So this month, kids, you may actually

get two topic shows. You'll get part one. which

you're going to get right now for Star Trek.

We'll do a little bit more in just a few weeks,

and then me, Ryan, and James Rolfe will be talking

about the Saw movies closer to Halloween. So

be on the lookout for that from us from Cinemassacre.

So I guess the next time we do a topic show,

probably give us about a week and a half, we're

going to talk DS9 Enterprise Voyager. And I guess

we'll even touch upon the Abrams verse, though

not as much, because that's still relatively

new. But we will talk about Star Trek Discovery,

which should be coming out. It's been delayed

a few months, from what I understand. May now

is the date. May 2017. So we'll hopefully be

talking more about that as hopefully we have

a little bit more information. Yeah, to be fair,

the delay was kind of necessary because one of

the things is they had only just started casting.

And I mean, their original date given was December.

I remember I was thinking there's no way you

can get going to get this series together for

you could maybe get a pilot year than maybe take

a break. But yeah, yeah. So I'm happy that they've

delayed it. It was the right thing to do. It's

just yeah, they had announced everything in close.

successions. I also wouldn't mind talking about

Star Trek Renegades and some of the fan films

that have come out of this, like Star Trek Continues

and of Gods and Men. So we'll talk about those

as well. Merchandise, yeah, video games, that

kind of thing. All sorts of cool stuff, guys.

So we will be back with part two in about two

weeks right here on This Week in Geek. You should

be hearing a nerd news tomorrow night, and it'll

be a good time. So until next time for This Week

in Geek, we have been... Right in the uneven

flow. I've been Mike the Birdman Dodd saying

live free or die hard and as we often used to

say on future imperfect live long and prosper

Wanna see me make bubbles with my spit sure do

in fact, that's the theme of our next show What

the hell happened to George Lucas Oh my God,

there's snot on my face. And I'm your host, Mike

the Birdman Dub, and I'm not a join, not a join.

What the f**k does that mean? F**k that, 10 seconds.

No, you gotta keep that. Let's do this, let's

do this right the first time. F**k you guys.

Ew, it's in my mouth. Oh God. Oh, what's it taste

like, Mike? Water, but ew, salty. Let's start

this episode with a s**t. Okay, okay, I'm good,

guy, girl. Holy shit! Oh my gosh! Freak! Die,

die, die, die! Holy crap! Whoa, whoa! Whoa, my

god, whoa! Where did it go? I'm like a stupid

monkey. As you can imagine, they don't let us

out much. You've been listening to This Week

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