Neon G.I. Joe Ninja Force Zartan and Dungeons & Dragons Beholder Figure Review

Jazz here, and I am so digging the geek cast

radio network greetings humans This is Starscream,

and you're listening to toy cast And if any of

you call me a parts former one more time Hello

and welcome to Toycast! This is episode 184 and

I can tell you fine folks that Optimus Solo has

finished all of the actual calculations for the

top 100 toys countdown. He's just adding a bunch

of new stuff and other stuff and trivia and all

that good stuff that we end up Talking about

on those episodes. I'm of course TF2 and Mike

Joining me once again almost as always is Josh

the floor burger Well, hello all you cool cats

and dudettes Wow and none other than mr. David

Draper, you know Don't think because we haven't

had a chance to do more Dave But I don't think

anyone's really caught on to my acronym that

that when you and I do stuff by ourselves when

Josh isn't here on the podcast We are basically

mad toy collectors because Mike and Dave don't

think anybody's caught on to that yet Of course

now they know but and knowing it's half the battle

But yeah, I thought that was hilarious when I

started using that as titles for the show. I'm

like, oh man, we are so mad Wait, you guys talk

about toys without me? Of course we do. All the

time. We talk about toys and we talk about you.

We talk about sometimes we wish you didn't do

with your toys. Well, as long as you're talking

about me, I'll take that. They're all gonna laugh

at you. Yes, this is episode 184 and I don't

know what kind of episode it's gonna be even

though I have this. So who wants to go first

as we break open the display case this time around?

Don't touch! I think I went first last time.

Josh, you're up. All right. So this week, month,

whatever interval we are on, I am going with

the 1993 Special Division of Ninja Force, Zartan.

And that is... a figure that is fully representative

of the neon takeover that 1993 represented in

Joe. If you go through the timeline of G .I.

Joe, little by little as the series progressed,

you can see flares of bright colors and neon

as G .I. Joe was still trying to appeal to those

little kiddos, trying to find those nice bright

colors, and 93 decided, we're going to try every

gimmick. Now Dave, I know you are very much well

versed in G .I. Joe over me. Me? Okay. Well,

you have a much more massive G .I. Joe collection

than I do. This is just the era I played with.

But this is neon to the extreme, where now I

am trying to form a neon shelf of brightly colored

figures that react to UV light. And Zartan was

not one that was on my radar, I have to admit.

This is one of those figures that an influencer

got me to become interested in. And we all know

him as PixelDan. And if you have watched any

of his recent toy hunt videos, he's been tracking

down Ninja Force figures and Zartan. And at one

of the last toy shows, after I realized that...

Lot of neon orange plastic from this era reacts

quite a bit with UV light so from Ninja Turtles

to I Think I have toxic crusaders. There's a

bunch of different figures I have that have neon

orange paint or light or excuse me neon orange

paint or plastic that it just reacts very very

boldly and This is one of those So is that the

last case Kane County in? April been looking

around and I was asking people, hey, can you

keep an eye out? Can you look around? Can you

see what you can find? And sometimes certain

influencers do have an effect on people wanting

to buy certain figures. I don't know if there's

any metrics that support Pixel Dan creating the

vast interest in food fighters again, but I think

there is at least some possibility that's the

case. So I didn't know if that was what I was

realizing at Cain County last year that this

was a very hard figure to find and I'm running

around and I'm taking little breaks from my booth

every so often. And I actually found one carded

for 15 bucks, which seems like a very good price

for a carded Joe, especially a more obscure one.

And if you actually ever see it, it really is

a unique figure where Zartan, who's known as

the master of disguise, it says it on the card

back. That as a master of disguise. He has a

bright neon orange mohawk He has I don't know

if it's a tattoo or face paint a la sting from

professional wrestling He's got he has he has

that I think he has something like that in the

original It's not a bright orange, but it's like

a black version of that. Yeah figure. Yeah, I

don't know that logo Okay, so I just I don't

know if that's a tattoo or face paint or or whatever

or a hologram Depending on which version you

went with, he was a mutant or a guy who actually

just used disguises or had holograms, they were

not consistent with Zartan's deal. No, and Zartan,

his card back actually describes him as having,

he is a master of makeup and disguise, a ventriloquist,

so he's really good at stage shows with dummies,

a linguist, an acrobatic contortionist, and a

practitioner of numerous mystical martial arts.

Doesn't really speak to his ability what what

allows him to change his face. Although the card

back does say he has a shuriken shaved mohawk

Which actually appreciate that and a rawhide

leather jacket doesn't say anything about his

face, but he does come with The typical weapon

tree where he has his bow and arrow some swords

some other stabbing weapons He's very stabby

bright neon orange or neon green pants And he

has a action feature of the Moroto Chop. And

I just think it's a delightful figure. It lights

up very bright under neon light. It really kind

of fits that era of that 90s extreme colors and

action features. It's trying to cover all the

gimmicks all at once. And it's currently one

of my favorite figures that I have on my shelf.

And I have Pixel Dan to thank for... Bring it

to my attention because I ordinarily probably

would have passed it over And that's all I have

to say about that All right in forest Well, I

know that they redid him the the collectors club

redid him towards the very end of the collectors

club As a modern -era figure he came with the

came with the bike they issued with some Other

dreadnought like that. They kind of made up for

the modern line I can't remember specifics, but

they do have a modern -era version of this figure.

I don't know if it was in black light, sorry.

Yeah, I am finding that certain orange plastic

does not glow, and some does. The RoboCop orange

plastic from that line does not glow. It's interesting.

I will look up that Zartan Collector Club. Oh,

I'm sure it's worth all the money. All the Collector's

Club stuff is stupidly expensive. $140 to start

with. That's not bad. It was probably pretty

close to that when it came out because they charged

all the money to begin with and then it got more

expensive. Yeah, it's pretty close to the original.

It looks like there are some reused parts. It

does try to grab that orange. I don't think it's

going to be the neon orange that I appreciate.

In general, that figure has a modern variant.

Yeah, you have a couple of the Collector Club

figures. I have a lot of them, actually, because

I got into it towards the end, so I was buying

all the stuff that came out. I do have that figure.

I've got both those figures. So if you don't

mind me asking, do you have any of them open?

Oh, of course. How does their durability, their

construction hold up as far as a smaller volume

of collectors? I mean, it was actually made at

the Hasbro factories. OK, I wasn't sure about

that. It's absolutely comparable with a regular

Hasbro, Joe from that era. Oh, okay, very cool.

Yeah, I'm looking at a picture of it right now,

and they're relatively close, but a lot of the

more modern Joe figures, they muted a lot of

those neon colors in the remakes of some of the

92, 93 figures. He was on Big Bad Toy Store originally

for 120. That's not bad. Not bad. No, with the

motorcycle and the accessories and... It's actually

a really cool -looking figure. I really enjoy

this figure. I like very neon, bold, ridiculous

figures that if you made them into realistic

costumes for a film or TV show, they would look

like something out of a 1980s UK rave. The funny

thing is he's a 90s figure, but he looks like

he's from the Warriors, which is an 80s film.

He has a very 80s design to him. Aside from the

brightness of the colors, he looks like some

bad 80s... Canon films, you know crime in the

city, you know, he's a bad guy. He's got the

mohawk and he's got the sleeveless Jacket or

vest, you know, it's very yeah like very British

punk sort of post -apocalyptic look Australian

and I'm sure a lot of the designers back then

would use a lot of reference images and just

look through different options and that's how

they create their characters They do now Yeah,

I'm sure they did So yeah, that's that's my my

pick for the week is oh I do want to point out

though that this was also the era and Dave I

don't know if you were still shopping for Joe's

or looking at Joe's in 93 I was graduating from

college. Yeah, so you probably were moving on

from things I was into but The bright pink packaging

is very surprising of the time. Yeah, I mean

having picked some up after the fact it's It's

very obnoxious. I'm sure I'm sure a fan of the

era loves it, but it's an eyesore. I appreciate

it for why they were doing it, because they were

competing with so many toys on the shelf at the

time, and bright colors apparently attract children,

and that's what the goal was. For a little while.

Yeah, and to make it visible from a distance,

but it doesn't fit with anything else I have,

but it doesn't bother me. It's not anything I

have a problem with. I actually just appreciate

the... In an ironic sense, I appreciate the complete

obnoxious nature of the color. Well, it fits

in with the rest of your 90s neon stuff you have,

right? Yeah, yeah, I'm keeping this one in package.

I have another Zartan that I got a couple different

pieces together and just had it like Frankenstein

the Ninja Force Zartan together and I have that

one loose. This one's staying in the package

because the... the neon pink, the neon orange,

the neon green, it all just works for me on that

shelf and I will continue to broaden that variety

as I'm looking through 93 and picking more. Well,

there you go. I know Funko isn't your bag most

of the time, Josh, but I will suggest you maybe

start investigating Funko Blacklight figures.

Not exactly neon, but very, very similar. I have

numerous ones and You're really cool. I actually

have to admit that one of the first ones that

popped up was a gremlin and that That wouldn't

that would fit yeah, I think you would like to

I I think you would like the Funko blacklight

gremlin figures They've got Batman the animated

series. They've got a Very orange with purple

hair Kate Bishop from the Hawkeye series from

Disney play. They've got all kinds of blacklight

stuff from Funko Like literally I had to actually

but I have a small black light Keychain on my

key ring in order to make a video about these

things I had to actually go and buy off of Amazon

a larger black light to get a better Scope of

whatever to yeah the video up Weirdest thing

about buying large black light flashlights on

Amazon or anywhere else half the time Would you

like to find bugs in your house? This is the

best way to I'm like really that's a selling

point for a UV black. Okay Actually, it's not

a bad thing to travel with when you're staying

at hotels, but well true. Yeah, yeah, and I'm

looking through some of these blacklight ones

you're referring to I would probably go with

the more creature looking ones. Like I said the

gremlin that there's zero from Nightmare before

Christmas I'd probably go for more of those for

that shelf than anything else. So, you know,

I'll keep an eye out. I think I've seen a couple

around. Yeah, very cool. All right, Dave, you're

up. Is that little shop of horrors? No, that

is from this year's Hasbro's Dungeons and Dragons

line. I think it's called the Gold Box line.

It's technically based on the movie, but he wasn't

in the movie. It is a beholder. It is in fact

Xanathar. I'm going to get the name wrong. But

he's actually kind of a known character in the

D &D universe. He's a very famous resident of

Waterdeep, the city that the movie took place

in. And Beholders are one of my favorite D &D

monsters because it's one of the really unique

D &D monsters. Like, you know, most of them were

like from Polkin or from mythology, you know,

or from Lovecraft, but this was like... He's

a big orb that floats in the air, he's got a

mouth, he's got an eye in the center, and he's

got these stalks, he's eye stalks, like I think

ten of them. I don't even know my beholder mythology

properly. But each eye has like a different beam

that it can cast, and then the center eye does

the spell magic. They're a very tough adversary.

Like all the really cool D &D monsters are like

really hard, which is kind of like disappointing

when you want to like throw them in and it's

like, you'll find a beholder! And all the first

level players are like, ehh, we die. But he's

very cool. I've always wanted them to do a D

&D toy. I'm sad because he's 1 -12th scale. The

movie figure line was 1 -12th scale. His mouth

opens and closes. There's a little lever on the

roof of his mouth that makes his eye move, so

he can look left or right. Instead of a clear

stand, he's got a pile of gold that he sits on,

which is a separate thing. And then he comes

with his beloved fish, Sylgar. Like part of the

thing is like Zenithar is like crazy. He's a

he's a he's a crime lord. He's kind of Jabba

the Hutt in Waterdeep. Okay. But Sylgar is like

his only covenant is beloved. He talks to him

even though the fish is just a normal goldfish

and I've heard I've read that like it's a goldfish

so it tends to die and like his minions like

immediately Find another goldfish before before

Xanathar notices because nobody knows what's

gonna happen if his beloved goldfish dies One

of the books is called Xanathar's guide to everything

and the cover is just like like a picture of

Sylgar and in the background you can see Xanathar

looking at him like all happy This is a weird

quirky like little thing that I like about D

&D Yeah, when you send me the pictures I was

like Audrey to know no, I know it's not but like

just the way cuz I'm I was Too young and stupid

to get into D &D I guess back then so I just

never other than the And Josh you might want

to pick this up even if you're not a D &D person

funko did a glow -in -the -dark gelatinous cube

version of the gelatinous cube So so the gelatinous

cube I actually found on clearance there you

go target not too long ago for about five bucks

or so and I don't know why but that was actually

a ridiculously difficult Piece of it together

for me. Yeah, you enjoy it It turned out that

I just had everything sort of upside down and

it took a second to to Kind of coordinate myself

Orient myself rather I would say but I actually

was a huge fan of the beholder when I was in

in middle school and in high school I had a friend

who really enjoyed Dungeons and Dragons He had

a couple of books and we were both trying to

learn how to play and the what? Connected me

with Dungeons and Dragons was I loved I don't

know if it was just called the monster book or

book a monster Yeah, and we would just flip through

it and just admire the art and the story behind

each One of them, and we always came back to

the Beholder, and I think it's because we sort

of connected it with Big Trouble in Little China,

where there's sort of an homage character. Yeah,

and also the Cacodemon from Doom looks very similar.

Yes, yes it does. That was my kind of stand -in

Beholder toy, like they had like a vinyl squishy

one. Yeah, and it just it has a lot of depth

for me when I saw this I was like if I ever can

find this for a reasonable price I might jump

on it. I think it's a Hasbro pulse exclusive

although Like a bunch of those came over to big

bad all of a sudden. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm that's

what I'm looking at right now and If it ever

dropped in price, I'd maybe you know one day

considering it consider it But I don't really

have a ton of Dungeons & Dragons stuff. I do

have the war Duke the original war Duke From

the early Dungeons & Dragons line, but this is

actually really cool Yeah, do you so are do you

know if the tentacles are bendy or they just

kind of locked in place? They they are articulated

at where it plugs in act. That's it. Okay about

it. Yeah, that's so pretty nice I mean they they

gave the movable the movable eye the movable

jaw. I think that's really neat I love the fish

and the story behind the fish. I think that's

really cool. Yeah I thought it was cool thing

included in and he's in his own little like fish

tank and it's It's like fussy to stand up right,

but yeah, yeah, yeah, the little touches are

what makes special like with the gelatinous cube

You know like there's there's a bag of holding

in it which is removed all that stuff's removable

Yeah, and it's like it's it's apparently a bag

of holding has like a stupid like face Pattern

on it, which I looks dumb But it's just like

that's that's that's what's on a bag of holding

and like they actually did that on the little

plastic accessory I like cool attention to detail

stuff like that. Yeah, whoever is Managing that

Dungeons and Dragons land. I'm sad. It probably

didn't do as well as it could have Oh, it's heartbreaking

because the movie was so much fun and it's it's

very Faithful to the especially fifth edition

D &D. Oh, yeah, and I want to see it really badly

I never saw anything past the first series so

I never saw the Chris Pine character, I never

saw him in stores or anything. And I always followed

it, and there's a couple for clearance right

now at Target. The Michelle Rodriguez character,

and I think the Hugh Grant, is it Hugh Grant?

I'm not sure if he's... It is Hugh Grant, yeah.

It is Hugh Grant, and then there's a third character

who I think Simon's, I can't remember if Simon's

in the first wave or a later wave. But yeah,

there were three characters in the first wave.

It was her, it was Hugh Grant, and I can't remember

who else. Like a magician -type guy, I think.

Yeah, it was Simon. Okay, then it was Simon.

And they're all on clearance right now. My target,

I just saw them today when I went to go pick

up a couple things. And the only one that's interesting

to me is the Michelle Rodriguez character. I

like the warrior and I always liked her as an

actress and stuff like that. But whoever's on

it does, I think, understand some of the lore

of D &D and is really having fun with that line.

Just from what I'm seeing. I think the figures

are very faithful to the movie. Which, again,

is very faithful to D &D. Did you get any of

the cartoon figures? I got all the cartoon figures.

I got all the cartoon figures. I got all the

movie figures. Well, yeah, I'm just checking

them. Did you have any of the QC issues I heard

about with the first run? No, but I heard about

the QC issues pretty early. I think I had Hank

open when I was reading about how everybody had

everything. But I was very I was very gentle

with him. I was very careful and usually when

you have yourself up You don't do a ton of dynamic

playtime or anything with them. So Yeah, I know

I really like the line I actually ended up getting

I had a really nice gift card and I got the War

Duke I came out the other character, but the

big dark knight from NECA I don't remember his

name either. But yeah, I know you're talking

about I got those just because I think they're

outstanding and I just had a really nice gift

card, so I found them all at once and I haven't

seen them since. Yeah, they're very nice. I've

got them too and I have the original ones. I

have the original War Duke to hang out like I

said before. So yeah, I think I want to learn

to play D &D. It's a goal of mine. It's something

I really want to do and seeing these figures

just gets me more interested. I mean, you know,

it's... I enjoy the game. It basically majored

in well, actually I majored in other games in

college But like D &D was kind of always the

heart of it I mean it is what you bring to it

like and it's surprisingly Like even D &D because

everyone thinks that D &D is basically just like

polkin, you know Yeah, but I mean there's like

there's there's Ravenloft which is very gothic

kind of old 30s universal monsters kind of thing

like vampires and werewolves and Then there's

this one called ever on which I was just reading

about which is very pulp fiction II like 1930s

Shadow and you know, it's got that kind of feel

to it. Yeah Like it's surprisingly like if it's

surprisingly dynamic, although the system is

very sort of magic warrior kind of oriented I

mean, there's all kinds of role -playing games.

It's it's I Like is good. Yeah, I got into One

game I think we only had about two or three sessions

and I really got into the character and the roleplay

part of it I really liked like that a lot. It

was during kovats So I was looking for any sort

of outlet I could possibly get and I I glommed

onto it So that's what I want to get back into

it now that Times are a little different Grim

Sword by the way was the name of the other guy

Grim Sword. Yes. Thank you I looked it up because

he's a like a second series like I know all the

first series figures by hard But like the second

series figures, I don't know their names. Yeah

Yet another thing in my collection that I have

and I don't Know what's called the thing on the

shelf to gather dust. I Bought it years ago.

I did The D &D thing I had to have it, you know

Hey, this is a good time for anybody who was

ever into D &D Yeah, I think it's it's really

riding high these day I think critical role and

some of the other let's plays on on YouTube and

other I think COVID, like you said, you were

doing it during COVID. I think COVID like kind

of helped people kind of to play online. Stranger

Things. Stranger Things. When you asked about

the Monster Manual, I was going to quote it.

It's my favorite line from Stranger Things is

Dustin is using the Monster Manual as like, as

references. And the sheriff guy goes, that's

just a game book. And he goes, it's a manual.

Yeah. And that was the show that sort of brought

it back to my radar. And I really was interested

in it again. So it's just I have to find people

who are patient and willing to teach me. So I

have an attention span of a thing with a short

attention span. Nat. I think the word you're

looking for is nat. What are we talking about

again? Your attention span. It's a nat. It's

a nat what? No. That's funny There it is that

we call that a segue Speaking of segways So Funko

pop license sounds optimus prime I Don't think

I've talked to I know I've mentioned him on the

show, but I don't think I've actively talked

about him I was so worried about then I know

I've mentioned this I've told this on the show

before but I was so worried about it when I first

saw it cuz I'm like if they don't get the voice

then because there are plenty of other people

who are out there who imitate Peter Collin then

I ain't buying it because no but yeah he's on

a stand he's four inches tall he really feels

like I mean other than his giant Funko head he

really does feel like the generation one Optimus

Prime toy just on a stand and if you tap his

head he'll say stuff The sad thing is he only

says two lines more than meets the eye and Autobots

roll out The third sound effect is the transform

sound effect now I know Peter Cullen is getting

up there in age and all of that and whatever

else but really funko you couldn't have Had him

do at least one more line Like one shall stand

one shall fall or something. I'm happy. I have

it. It's cool, but Man, I wish there was more

sounds with this thing. I mean at least with

r2 r2 has like of course r2 is just mostly sound

effects anyway, but at least r2 has like six

different sounds and I get it you got to pay

the voice actors and Yep, no, absolutely. Yeah,

but that's my point. They should have paid him

for more than just two lines Well, how much did

you pay for the toy? $18 well, then you probably

would have paid $24 and that's fine. I Get more

I'll pay more for it, you know, I Don't you know,

I mean they're fun to go Bob's I've bought that

I've spent 24 28 whatever They're called dollars.

He's he's a lot. Well, that's true Obviously,

he's larger but unicorn. Oh Unicron pisses me

off Because GameStop can't sell him now. They're

discounting him. I Bought him MSRP 40 bucks.

It's a ten and a half inch figure, which is fine

That's fine. That is what the MSRP was I had

no problem paying for it because I wanted it

but it just makes me so upset now or it's like

Yeah, we can't get rid of him. You should have

just waited See that one mode just kills you

folks. My thing is like I I think this is the

second time we've done the show with Josh, and

he keeps going, oh yeah, I went to Target and

bought this thing that you paid full price for,

and I'm like, eh. But the thing is, you never

know. Right. For me, it's like back when Power

of the Force was the big Star Wars line, I remember

walking into a Walmart, and the actual rack,

or the toy thing, I don't know what you would

say, what we would call the aisle, I guess, went

all the way up to the ceiling. It was all like

Reese and the Death Star trooper because the

new figures that had just come out There were

tons of them and I was like, oh, that's you know,

I got one of each and then I decided Oh, I kind

of like a second Death Star trooper. They were

gone That and they were they were so scarce after

that like no one ever found them again That the

Star Wars fan club eventually like released them

as a special release. Oh wow, you never know

what's gonna be common is dirt. Usually first

wave stuff is pretty a good guess, and last wave

stuff is a pretty good guess that it'll go fast.

But you never know what's gonna be there, and

what's gonna be easy to get, and what's just

gonna disappear, and you're gonna have to chase

it and get it on eBay. Jason and I both, we both

had second regret, or I don't know what you'd

call it, FOMO, we regretted missing out on the

Stuntacons. And so we chased down stupid, uh,

Motor Master. We chased down Motor Master and

we both spent more than retail, a bit more than

retail to get them. And then immediately after

Jason got his, like, big bad was like, re -release

of Motor Master and the entire Stuntacon set.

And it's like, ugh, sons of bitches. And that's

been going on for nearly 40 years now because

I remember as a kid, the Devastator gift set.

Yeah, that's what I got. Yeah, back in the day.

Yeah. No, I don't yeah like man I remember seeing

Devastator if you say off bootleg toys in Easter

baskets. Yeah I Had them up to like a couple

years back. Yeah and At least they they stopped

selling them around my area because if I would

have seen one I probably would have gotten one

by now but a lot of that knockoff stuff I just

unfortunately Missed out on like big time. I

think it's a good thing. Like I don't want to

knock knockoffs, but just I want the real damn

like I don't want I Think the appeal of knockoffs

to collectors is after you have the real one

and it's oh, what do you what do you buy then?

You know, right and there's only so many like

weird figures that were only released in, you

know Patagonia you can track down and eventually

you go, okay, well, how about that weird knockoff

Devastator? How about that weird, like I have

a knockoff Transmetal Megatron. Ooh, I've heard

about that one. Well, no, it's Transmetal too.

It's the dragon one. It's the dragon, yeah. Yeah,

which looks like it had like a dollar general

or something. It was really super cheap, and

I was just like, I like that toy. It's smaller,

I believe. No, it's the exact same size. Mine

is the exact same size. Oh, okay, because there

was a small, they had, there were a couple of

knockoffs that were shrunken scale. Mine comes

with a little electric dude. I think it's from

the show, but he wasn't with that toy. He wasn't

with the original Megatron. Right, yeah. I don't

know. You have, let's just say, 11, 12 years

ago. You have all these companies, I don't think

they're around anymore, but What the hell is

their stupid name? They did the the upgrade kits

oh There's a bunch of different ones specific

fans project they did fans it was fans project

City Commander Shadow Commander they did Upgrade

kits for the then current releases of ultra Magnus

optimus prime shattered glass optimus things

like that But my point is you have all these

third party companies back then and even now

to this day still doing various things That were

not licensed but like they were like this is

our not don't appreciate this Dave quake wave

Quake wave is essentially shock wave Yeah, sure

you do. But like, I don't mind that. But at the

same time, I still would want Hasbro to do a

proper release. They did. No, I know. I know

they did. Like, yeah. Yeah. No, I know they did

eventually. But that's my thing between actual

Hasbro product versus the knockoffs is I want

to see what had like, yes, the quake wave was

awesome. But I wanted back then to see what Hasbro

would have done, and obviously we've seen that

now. So that's, like, in general, you know, it

is what it is. Hey, I'm getting into not full

model kits, just easy model kits. The Yolo Park

Generation 1 Pro Series Megatron. is coming next

month. Yeah, this episode will release before

the end of September. It'll be out this Friday

the 29th, so that's, yeah. But they're doing

a Generation 1 AMK Pro Megatron, Advanced Model

Kit Pro Megatron. Basically, it's the easiest

model kit in the world. It's all already painted

and everything else. All you have to do is basically

just put it together. And I'm just like, okay,

cool. I can deal with that. And they just announced,

as of this recording, the Optimus Prime version

of the AMK Pro series. So I'm very excited to

see where Yolo Park goes with what they're doing.

I have gotten a couple of upgrade kits. I got

some upgrade kits for the Optimal Optimus. I

think that was a Headmaster or Power of the Primes

or something. Optimal Optimus was Beast Wars.

Yeah, I think it was like a later Transmetal.

Yeah, it was Transmetal 3, but they redid Optimal

Optimus for... Power of the Primes. Power of

the Primes. And I got a couple of the upgrade

kits for that and they made all of the difference

in that figure. It took it from something that

I was like, eh, to wow, this actually... really

has some homages to the original figure, but

makes it something so much more special and unique.

So I really like the little upgrade kits. They

do make a difference. I'm looking at one right

now for the Megatron, the Dragon Megatron that

just came out recently, and it's pretty fun.

I've gotten several, but the last one I got was

for when they did Black Zarak. It was basically

Scorponok, just with different colors, and I

thought, okay, I'll get the upgrade kit and make

them a little different than Scorponok. It was

just like you literally were taking that thing

apart, and it was very in -depth. It wasn't just

snap a thing on, it was like, take apart the

little ratchet -held thighs and knees, and oh,

it was a nightmare. I didn't have that experience

with mine. It was actually very satisfying in

a weird sort of way. It just it worked really

well. It was very quick. It made a lot of sense

and when it was done It's it's a thing of beauty.

I really appreciate it because it's always it's

been one of my favorite iterations of any prime

as long as I've been a collector and and to have

the original and this upgraded version up on

my shelf is No, just just a fun little self -accomplishment

Yeah, it's one of the well now there have been

five and six changes but For Beast Wars specifically

it was one of the original like boss that had

four modes because he has two robot modes and

he has two vehicle modes he has a flying mode

and a car mode and then the the robot mode it

basically it's just the robot face and the ape

face switch there's some slight differences in

posture and the armor and stuff like that yeah

yeah and I think that was when they really were

just trying to say hey, let's just create the

toy first then create the show model and It just

looks like when he's doing the tank mode or the

jet mode it just looks like he's in his robot

mode laying down on his face and Zooming about

the room Yeah on the on the show. It's very fluid

But I think what I liked about that show was

that it got to that point where there's some

vehicle reference to it, but it didn't have to

look pretty by that point. And you didn't have

to look like a sleek vehicle. You could look

like a monkey that was part robot, part vehicle,

and it didn't really matter. Yeah. Absolutely.

There's a lot of really cool upgrade kits, man.

Oh yeah. How do they do this before the figure

even comes out? A lot of these are released the

same time the figure is hitting stores. I don't

know. Me neither. It's just pretty impressive.

Well, have you guys seen the growing response

to a lot of Hasbro toys and Mattel toys from,

it's called Ramen Toy? No. Dave, have you seen

that at all? I don't think so. So they came out

with the more Dolph Lundren He -Man head. They're

coming out with their own version of the Engine

of Vengeance that Hasbro didn't come out with.

They're coming out with it for about $150 cheaper.

They're doing their own version of the NECA sewer

layer. Oh, cool. Okay. Well, it's just that there's

a lot of toy companies that are looking and seeing

the apps they can fill and They're finding a

way to do it and it's really quite incredible.

I'll send it to you guys real quick Well, I mean

it depends on the thing but I'm pretty sure the

Dolph Lundgren head is more of a rights thing.

Oh Yeah, they're just basically kind of breaking

breaking the law. Oh, yeah So this company is

just not even caring about that type of thing.

So the it makes such a difference when you see

the Dolph Lundgren head compared to the original

Mattel one. It's two entirely different people.

I would hope so. Well, they should have really

pushed to get those rights if Dolph was giving

them out. I think it would have made a huge difference.

I just don't know how expensive that is or if

he's just not doing it. As far as I know, he's

just doing cameo videos. Well, it could also

be... Well, I mean, yeah, just for Dolph's head.

The rights to those movies are famously screwed

up. Oh, yeah with Master of the Universe. Yeah,

that's completely tied up and else it's so weird

But yeah, you get like because they're doing

also What is this? You know what some change,

huh? Yeah, that's since you're in tons and chains

references there's a lot of cool stuff the heads

are very high quality actually really like those

and the What do you call it the Marshall? That

was tempting, but I don't have a strong enough

connection to pay that kind of money. The Aces

of Aviation are supposed to be... They initially

were doing something very close to Tom Cruise,

but they got nailed legally very fast. That's

a cool figure though, if you actually have a

F -14 Tomcat to fit it in. I still haven't watched

mission seven yet or mission seven part one I

should say What else we got going on fellas Just

I I just observed a Hasbro had another giant

target clearance event or something occurred.

I don't know if anybody else saw that Know as

of this recording because Steve and I haven't

had a chance to record it. They just had their

monthly Whatever pulse cut not monthly pulse

They do they do the lives but but it's like yes

pulse con is like Supposedly supposed to be once

a year, but they also do like these every once

or twice every couple of months They'll do these

these Hasbro pulse fan streams that are just

hey here's what we're doing which is great i

think that's cool i think that's awesome that

they're doing that for any of the brands whether

it's star wars power rangers transformers whatever

but since speaking specifically to transformers

i'm just like okay that's great i don't really

care about half the stuff they announced i'm

more excited for the omega rangers in the power

rangers line than i am half the stuff that though

Yeah, those are cool, and I didn't watch the

entire live stream. I actually just caught coverage

of it Yeah, but that was a really long time to

expect customers to be sitting around and and

watching well, I think the thing is is that Because

Hasbro owns like I've already said Transformers

Power Rangers Star Wars GI Joe Dungeons and Dragons

other things like I think the reason why That

they tell you hey Transformers is gonna be at

11 a .m.. Eastern. Okay good It's probably gonna

be an hour or so if you're only interested in

Transformers. That's probably all you're gonna

watch And I do like if you're not gonna watch

it live Since I have YouTube pulled up here what

I do like is that Hasbro pulses YouTube channel

has put out the individual segments as YouTube

videos So like I said if you just want the Star

Wars stuff you can go to their YouTube channel

and click on the Star Wars video to see the Star

Wars reveals you don't have like I You're absolutely

right Josh. It's insane if anyone's gonna sit

there for that length of time for all the toy

lines, but if you have one specific toy line

and you don't need to watch it live, then going

back and watching it after the fact is more than

fun, at least for me anyway. Well, and I'm also

sure that there are plenty of websites that cover

toy lines and are monitoring, and so they're

like, okay, the Marvel panel's coming up. You're

sitting there refreshing the website, like, okay,

well, the Marvel panel's coming up. Yep. Yeah.

I like a lot of the torn lines that they covered.

It seemed like a lot to try to get people to

watch. There was some really cool stuff. The

fact they're doing a six -inch helix, which Dave,

I know you're not a six -inch person, but that

helix is actually a really cool Joe scale figure

as well. It's not Joe scale at all. Well, the

original one, the first one that came out. Yeah,

that's a cool figure. Yeah. That was Josco. Yeah.

And there's a couple cool Transformers. Nothing

really caught my eye. Nothing jumped out at me.

It was like, ooh, I need to get this. Everything

looked great. Just nothing that would get me

to take my wallet out. Yeah. Well, I will say

about the September 22nd, 2023 Hasbro PulseCon

video, it does have 215 ,000 views. So. Yeah,

and I guess people are willing to sit through

and like Dave mentioned most toy websites that

actually report on the toy news are obviously

gonna sit there and and take all the notes and

are not going to wait a day or so until they

You know, whatever so Like most of them back

and I I really haven't followed it too closely

But it used to be that like you could like, you

know click refresh and it would be like if they

And this figure got announced, and this figure

got announced, and this figure got announced,

you know. And people would live, won't tweet,

but live update their thing on the announcements.

I do miss those old SDCC days of following coverage

and releases and stuff. I'm even looking through

the Foosh coverage, speaking of different outlets

that cover that stuff, and Foosh has everything

covered. You don't have to watch the whole thing

at all. Yeah. There's like it there's some really

cool stuff that they revealed and they came out

with like they're really coming along and I know

I I was actually surprised to see that I heard

rumors that they're gonna be going back to the

o -ring Joe's as an actual wine Dave I don't

know they try that they already they've already

brought back a couple Well, they had the you

know, the has lab sky striker was that Scott's

Cracker had O -Ring figures, and then the Joe

Transformers figures are O -Rings. The S .T .A

.L .K .E .R. and the Baroness. Yeah, the Baroness

that came with the H .I .S .T .A .N .K. And those

look super cool. I'm surprised that they haven't

tried to go a little bit more strong on that.

I don't think they went over. I think they released

a H .O .B .R .A. Soldier. They released a set

that I don't think sold very well. Well, I guess

I think I think everybody's all in on like like

after a slow start everybody's all in on classified

and nobody really wants to go back to two four

inches and and Yeah, I like classified I think

it's a great line I and I'm not saying this because

I'm an older collector anything I just think

there's something more charming and fun about

the the old o -ring scale Yes I prefer that scale.

I mean, most of my toys that I had were that

scale. I think you get more cool stuff from that

scale than you can with a six -inch scale. Oh,

for sure. You know, the weird thing about Classified

is that it started trying to do something new,

and then has immediately just backpedaled into

the familiar stuff. Like, if you look at those

first wave figures, their designs were like the

classic... The idea was the classic designs,

but they were updated. Like, Starlite's outfit

was kind of different, and everybody's outfit

was a little bit different. And now they're just

back to remaking the original figures. And I

mean, for favorite characters, beloved characters,

I can see that, but I'm just not gonna, it's

why I never got into the block series. I'm not

gonna buy the same damn thing all over again.

Oh, I totally understand, and it's weird that

when Classified came out, there was a lot of

people who didn't like the new design. They said,

oh, go back to nostalgia. No, they didn't. The

whole thing is, it's all about nostalgia. Well,

I mean, G .I. Joe is still doing G .I. Joe versus

Cobra. It's all about, you know, by Transformers

is pretty much, you know, Optimus Prime and all

the G1 characters, just different versions, but

there's pretty much G1 characters. Now the Beast

Wars characters are kind of coming into their

own. So it's funny you say that. Because those

kids are now like old and nostalgic, but. Yeah,

but it's funny you say that because at the thing

this week. the Transformers Legacy United is

the next evolution of the toy line of the main

toy line for next year all of it is Everything

there's like seven generation one Figures everything

else is from everything else in the last 40 years

of Transformers But it's still not new. Oh, no,

it's new. No, you say it's from the last 40 years.

But what I but OK, I know what you're saying.

It's technically a new toy that has been created

in the modern era. What I'm saying is it's a

character that someone has a nostalgic attachment

to. No, what I'm what I'm saying is the actual

toys normally you would think going into an anniversary

year, they would be all about Generation one

and. Doing more modern, but that's all they've

done right exactly That's my point and it was

pointed out to me and several other people in

several YouTube videos if you look at the and

I'll show you guys the poster later the poster

for Transformers Legacy United is Robots in disguise

2001 it's all this other stuff but robots in

disguise was all the classic characters. There

was Optimus, there was Bumblebee, there was,

that's the animated series, right, isn't it?

Robots in Disguise? The very Japanese one. Yeah,

there was all the classic, that was Shockwave,

that was Mega, like, it was all the classic characters.

And there were one or two new, like, they had

Waspinator as a car, which was cool. That's like

Bumblebee's arch nemesis. There were neat little

variations, but I think Lockdown was the only

unique character from that, and he's been done

like 10 times since then. That's my point. It's

like, oh, it's from Robots in Disguise. Yeah,

okay, so another slightly different optimist.

Another Bumblebee. And I think part of that is

that these companies are doing what I'm kind

of seeing in these throwback groups that are

getting together in the music industry. Why are

Backstreet Boys It's kind of bigger now than

maybe they were back in the nineties and early

two thousand because those are all moms now with.

In comes that they can use it. I really expensive

tickets to go see them i'll see this from experience

i was at a backstreet boys concert almost everybody

there was probably the thirties and forties so

now a lot of these properties. And the men's

room was completely empty was amazing it's great.

Yeah, I think with music it's even doubly so

because I mean like when was the last Backstreet

Boys album? I mean, you know Chartered or had

a when was their last hit song? Yeah, I mean

music just a couple years ago actually really.

Yeah, just a couple. They just had an album.

I think 2018 drop Yeah, do you realize how long

ago 2018 was? Six years a lot. It feels a lot

longer and it should You know, they got caught

up with kovat But they start touring in 2018

2019 and I have my reasons for knowing this but

what I would what I'm saying is the reason why

we're seeing robots in disguise we're seeing

energon is that the kids who Watch those grew

up and now they're the collectors. That's what

I'm saying about Beast Wars Yeah, and it's gonna

keep cycling like that. And then I think eventually

Maybe 20 years from now. It's going to be this

legacy line that is out now that everybody's

nostalgic for and we're gonna see that get recycled

again Just gonna recycle all the recycled goods.

Yeah, I mean and that's well, no it's gonna stop

because like I'm already 52 and At the rate I'm

going, you know, if I hit 60 it kind of will

be a miracle Like at some point the people with

the nostalgia for this stuff are gonna start

dying off That's true that and I'm not trying

to be more good. But yes, there is a certain

demographic that It's But that's the double -edged

sword. First of all, the whole toy industry has

changed completely. So now the way to survive

is to feed. It's like the same thing happened

with comic books, where they were just feeding

off the same whales who kept coming in and buying

the stuff that they always bought and being nostalgic.

And then they had the bright idea of changing

everything up and making it better. And they

drove all the old collectors away because they

thought they could bring in new people. It didn't

work. And now, if those things weren't accounting

errors for major corporations, we wouldn't have

comic books anymore. Those things lose money

like crazy. But it's happening with toys too.

And it's funny because the toy company is real

reluctant to get on board, which is why you have

the ROM toy, why you have NECA, why you have

all these guys that are happy to jump in and

make stuff. for the nostalgic old people market.

If I say this, someone's gonna go, well, my kid

loves Star Wars as much as I do. And I would

say, does he love Star Wars or does he love bonding

with his dad? And you will have an ever -shrinking

group of younger people who have an affinity

for this product, for this genre, for toys, brands,

I'm trying to think of the name I want, but like

the Transformers or G .I. Joe or Star Wars. The

property. The property. Yeah, I mean it's a shrinking

market and unfortunately like the attempts to

like make them new and hip and hot are not working

out well. Well I will say just to go back really

quickly about the Transformers only because like

I said Steve and I haven't had a chance to talk

about it and really Steve really isn't that interested

in it. I'm sending you guys the poster and I'm

sending you the the link to where the poster

is on tformers So so far now granted. They're

not gonna announce all the 40th anniversary stuff.

Okay, okay like now But so far is prime Okay,

but yeah, that's animated. Hold on. Hold on Bumblebee

that unique new character. Hold on. Hold on Yes,

you are correct. Yes, there are Optimus primes

and bumblebees. However, this was from Transformers

animated the Cartoon Network It was the design

he was he was a design. Oh, come on. Oh, he's

a slightly different truck No, I thought you

were actually gonna say cuz he was a younger

unexperienced field commander that watch that

show he is and he was but it's fucking prime

Wow, I'm this is like It's a madness poster here.

I love again. I can't remember his name, but

I've got the figure and I love that guy the combiner

That's like the three dinosaurs Galvatron magmatron.

He's not Galvatron. He's not magnetron. He's

something else. He's not try predicates because

that's bugs Megazord no It's close enough, but

I see I think that's an energon It's a John Galvatron.

So the list here for so the official Transformers

SNS updates the new poster Transformers legacy

not a reveal that has proposed contrary three

bars Guido greedy Guido greedy amazing, dude.

Love the poster. Keep it up We've won characters

and more than meets the reveals including the

following possible characters that we will all

help hope get new toys Animated Optimus Prime

and Bumblebee, Armada Tidal Wave, Armada Combined

Megatron and Tidal Wave Weapon Mode, Beast Wars

Neo Magmatron, Beast Wars Tiger Hawk, which that's

one of the ones that I'm excited for just to

see more of that, Beast Wars Second Tasmanian

Kid, Cyberverse Windblade, Energon Galvatron,

Infernak, Boulder Crash, so the armorizers are

the new gimmick thing that Hasbro is going to

be doing similar to the weaponizers that they

did a couple of years ago. Junkion, blah blah

blah, Prime, Thundertron, and RID 2015 Chase.

All of these, while I will admit Dave, you are

correct. Yes, that is Optimus Prime. Yes, that

is Bumblebee. But that is not Generation 1 Optimus

Prime and Bumblebee in design. Like it's not

under that entire list. There are no Generation

1 toys. Okay, they went back to the well and

burned the candle and said new character for

2023 Optimus Prime, but he's different So honestly,

I'll say what this kind of looks like to me is

that somebody had a massive Transformers collection

Bumped into the shelf anything that fell they

turned that into the next cartoon. I Wish this

would be the next cartoon. It would be super

cool If I went and knocked down my Transformers

collection right now From that shelf. It would

look something, you know, it wouldn't be these

characters. I have I think two or three of the

characters on this but that's that's really It

looks like a the multiverse of madness. It looks

like The flash movie that just came out of all

these crazy crossovers. This is Someone who's

got the toys left over and decides I'm gonna

play with all of them at the same time Well,

and again, that's the same kind of thing that

they did with last year They did the legacy evolution

and they have another I Don't I'm not gonna send

you guys the link but I'll send you the the picture

of the poster this was what they did last year

and There's a like literally there's everything

coming out of portals and and and all that and

everything else, but there's junkie ons There's

oh, yeah, why oh convoy. There's all these things

and it's my point is Love what they're doing.

Like I want these posters. I don't even like

half the toys that are in the United poster But

I want that damn poster because that poster is

freaking cool. Oh Armada hotshot is always gonna

be one of my favorites Only because they couldn't

use hot rod time. Oh, it's it's not I just like

I'd like the design It was one of my first friends.

Yeah, it's when I started collecting again. Yeah,

absolutely I'm just looking at these cool new

characters like Trax and Grimlock. And the Junkians.

And the Insecticons. And yeah, these hot new

characters that were completely different. But

don't we want modern versions of those classics?

Did we not get modern versions of those classics?

I mean... Well Energon and Armada I think need

a massive upgrade. Yeah. Yeah, Energon, the Unicron

Trilogy toys did need a massive upgrade. I mean,

look, I will probably get Magmatron, because

I think that's a cool design, and I have the

vintage, I guess you would call it one. I'm not

arguing that it's cool to give some of the secondary

characters a little love. But I mean, it's...

My whole point was that they're not doing anything

new, Mike. This isn't new. This is this is like

this is like multiverse of madness. This is like

the flash movie work It's all the stuff that

you've known love, you know, I mean did you see

the flash movie Josh? I? Have not watched it

from start to finish. I think the big crossover

scene is like Big crossover scene has like Christopher

Eve and it has a Nicholas Cage it has Nicholas

Cage, but it has a Batman like the CD Batman

An Affleck, yeah. No, not an Affleck. West. Adam

West. West, Adam West. Yeah, Affleck's in it.

Aside from Nicholas Cage, which was a neat little

Easter egg, which apparently people were annoyed

about, but I liked it. Again, it's stuff that

you know. What I'm saying is there's only so

long you can go before the people who know what

this stuff is will be dead. And then you have

no one to sell it. You either try to present

it as something new, which might work. But I

mean, if it did work, it would be working with

the kids of today who don't play with toys. I'm

just saying, this thing has a shelf life. Right,

and I understand that. And you feel like a slightly

different Optimus Prime is a bold new move. Especially

since a slightly different Optimus Prime is based

on something from 23 years ago. The move is not

as bold or new as you seem to be arguing. My

point is, is that everything in the Legacy United

poster minus the Transformers animated figures

is stuff that I, like that's not my, it's perfectly

fine, but that's not my generation of Transformers.

I don't know those characters. I didn't sit here

and watch Armada, Energon, and Cybertron from

beginning to end. Have I seen them? Have I seen

various episodes? Do I know what they are? Absolutely.

But as a Transformers fan, it's not my bag. That's

my point. What they've revealed so far is for

the people that aren't 21, 22 -year -old TFG1

Mike in the early 2000s, Who was going through

other things and going through life and wasn't

really into the transformer stuff It's for you

know those people who were 14 15 16 and you're

right Dave There is a shelf life on this stuff,

but these companies have to Kate That's the problem

with it being a shelf life They got to find a

way to cater to everybody cater to you cater

to me cater to Josh cater to In the the the younger

generations and that's why I love all of the

variety like that wind blade I think is core

core class stuff for for Transformers like how

they can get that much detail and something that

small is genius to me We're just a bunch of old

men arguing about toys folks yeah, but that was

a point I Don't I don't have a problem necessarily

with transformers recycling like that. I think

it's for someone like me who Transformers was

always on the periphery for me growing up. Yeah

It was never really something I had a ton of

it was I go to a KB toys or toy liquidator and

ooh You know, give me one of those go bot transformers

because there's that sub series of go bots Transformers.

Yep. Oh, I'll take one of those and I never had

an Optimus Prime. I never had, I don't think

I even ever had a Megatron growing up as a kid.

I knew who they were, but as a collector it's

been nice to, I've been hunting down my favorite

version of Optimus Prime and I finally decided

to stop because you can only buy so many and

sell so many. Exactly. I do have to mean that

sort of my point ultimately is like as a Star

Wars guy Like I will never buy another Darth

Vader. I don't need one same like like there

are just things that I don't need as You know

because I've they keep remaking him over and

over again. They just Like one of the few vintage

collection figures they announced because that's

that's what I collect and of course it gets like

nothing was Obi -Wan Obi -Wan versus Darth Vader

Just like well that was Like I'm just saying

I'm tired of the same things over and over yeah,

and that was my exact concern with the adventure

series for Indiana Jones It sort of became that

Simpsons joke up with Barbie of look he has a

new hat But it was the same thing and I think

that's one of the reasons why that line is pretty

much failed is That line that line chaps me cuz

like they did have like they had some characters

in six inch scale that they didn't do the last

time around Yeah, and which it it it claws at

my heart and then they have some that they're

that they Did in four inch scale that they're

never gonna do in the six inch scale, which I

Understand the political reasons for doing so.

Yeah, but that was a line that when I saw it

released I'm like if this gets to series three,

I would be shocked Because once you get that

first initial Last crusade that last crusade.

Sorry temple of doom that's a podium Lost Ark

Indy once you get that I don't really think you

unless you want every iteration of Indy You don't

really need any more. That's a perfect Indiana

Jones figure what it is But I mean to be fanboy

about it in the foreign scale. I do have like

all the different like Because in Temple of Doom,

he doesn't have the jacket, his shirt's torn.

And then in Crystal, not Crystal Skull, let's

just say, he's got the tie. He does. It's when

he was in the castle. Kind of. I mean, I feel

like there's somewhat legitimate variations.

But I think if you were going to just have an

iconic general. You might just have one, you'd

have the Raiders, yeah. Yeah, for sure. And it's

still a really well -done figure. I wish he had

gloves, glove hands. It is the only one that

I have of that line, the Adventure Line or whatever

the hell it's called. Of course, I got the Club

Obi -Wan for, I think it was like three months.

On clearance, I got that one. See, that would

be one I would love to have in a foreign scale.

I totally understand that. And he comes with

really, really small accessories. He comes with

a diamond. It's absolutely fine. I just didn't

see a lifeline for that I mean the movie didn't

you know, I mean it's it's it's merchandising

to support the movie and the movie Didn't go

over. So Did you say that's a big part of it?

No Really? No. No. Oh god. No, why would I want

to do that? I'm officially to the point in my

life or like why do I want to like waste my time?

I understand I Just didn't know if you just check

it out to see if it really was the dumpster fire

was no Dial of destiny or your dial of destiny.

Okay. Yeah. No, I have I And this is and I've

said this on other podcasts, too If I'm curious

to find out just so I can know and I understand

that it is editable by Everybody on the planet.

I will read the Wikipedia article to get the

cliff notes for movies. I really don't care to

see Crystal skull just left a really bad taste

in my mouth. Yeah the entire property and it

was hard to go back to that it was really Well,

I mean I was that's why I was excited initially

at the beginning I was excited for the fifth

one because like like Lucas was out and I thought

okay like not to knock on Lucas But a lot of

crystal skull was Lucas Maybe another one like

a last hurrah, you know, and then Spielberg was

out and I was like, oh and then just more and

more, everything you heard about it just wasn't

good, and then, you know, it was the Helena of

Shaw movie with Indiana Jones as her sidekick

that she, apparently they meant it to be cute

and light, but it was basically her picking on

Indy the whole movie for being an old white man.

I was like, I don't wanna see my, I already saw

Picard, I don't need to see this. I don't need

to see this. Dave, I feel like we watched the

same review. Probably I mean it was every review

was every Yeah, you and every criticism and it

was like but I've heard that it was supposed

to be more playful more teasing and it was just

the actress Didn't pull it off and it sounded

really kind of like she was picking on him. She

was being mean to him And I don't want to see

like there was this whole thing about like spoilers

what happened to mutt and he broke up like This

stuff was a big deal to me because my dad left

when I was like mine And Han Solo and Indiana

Jones were like my male role models. Like they

were very important to me. And both of them have

been presented in these movies as bad dads, bad

husbands. Like, and it's just like, it hurts.

It sucked. Like, see the characters that you

grew up and idolized basically knocked down so

that, you know, other characters can rise and

shine. It's like, that's, it's not how you need

to do it. You could do it in a way that like,

You know the other person lifts like the the

old -timer helps lift up the newcomer and also

would help with the newcomer I actually had anything

for a while about them Yeah, like and and didn't

just like have an attitude that I'm better than

everybody. I mean it It's just very lazy, right?

That's one of the reasons like I am done. Like

I am We're doing a soca and then I'm out. So

maybe it's season two. No, I'm not kidding Like

I'm done. I'm not gonna watch the acolyte I'm

done with Disney. Disney kind of pooched it.

They spent four billion dollars to turn Star

Wars into a girls' property. And I don't think

Star Wars... I mean, I know it leaned heavily

towards boys, but every woman I know of my generation

knows Star Wars, idolizes Princess Leia. Like,

it may have leaned towards boys, but it didn't

necessarily push away girls. And now it's boys

not welcome. So I'm like, I'm done. Not to get

political, but that's... Right the way was the

way Han was treated the way Indy was treated

I'm just I'm done with all of it. Like I'm actually

literally Sorry, this is not about toys, but

I'm literally going back to rewatch deep space

nine, which I never really watched Just to kind

of go back into the archives and find good stuff

from the olden days Because there's plenty of

it and I don't need the new stuff I Understand

a lot of your points. Sorry Mike I totally understand

a lot of your points and I do see a lot of what

you're saying and for me it's I don't mind if

a property does lean towards supporting girl

characters, but like you said if you're discrediting

and destroying Established characters to do so

and well and wrestling is still jobbing like

like exactly. Thank you. Yeah Yeah, it's jobbing

the old characters to make the new characters

go over and apparently in wrestling that never

works But not everybody knows what it is So or

or even I mean it could it wasn't even a good

match to use the wrestling metaphor it was just

a short pointless match that left everybody confused

and no, I totally see that and Like it's hard

because as much as I hate to be that person like

oh they ruined my childhood seeing that development

does sort of For me not taint, but it does change

my my view of that because now I know where they

go. No, see, it doesn't ruin my childhood because,

like, as Alan Moore said, they're all imaginary

stories. So for me, it's very easy to draw the

line at Disney. It's like, okay, like, because

I'm old enough that I was the Marvel comics and

the old Han Solo books and the Ewok movies and

the cartoons, and then all that got thrown out

the window in the 90s. for the expanded universe,

you know, the Thrawn trilogy and Dark Empire

and all that stuff. So I've seen a universe be

thrown away and burned before, and then Disney

took over and threw away and burned that universe.

So I've got no problems pushing the end button

at everybody on Endor celebrating. I know it

sounds like a stereotypical fan man child going,

there was no Episode 7, 8, 9. I know they exist,

I know an official continuity, they're there,

you can't get rid of them. Although a lot of

movies do that nowadays, a lot of movies just

basically go, okay, those sequels don't count.

And they do that all the time now. But yeah,

Halloween, Jurassic World kind of did that. Because

Jurassic World never really acknowledged the

Lost World or the third one. But like, I mean,

kind of did in the last one, but the last one

was terrible anyway. My point being... It's very

easy for me to go, okay, this is clue, this is

one possible ending, but I don't like it and

I can ignore it and one day someone will come

up with a better one. That's a quick question

I have, is that will they ever try to reboot

Star Wars and how long would they have to wait

to do that? Maybe. I don't know, I don't think

they can do it right now. It was how long between

episode... between return of the Jedi and 83

to 99 so just over 10 years 15 years, maybe yeah,

so and That allowed the the Star Wars fandom

to I think ferment and grow and blossom and see

that yeah, that's the thing but the the problem

That's the logical thing the problem with that

is These corporations, these toy companies, these

rights holders, whatever you want to call them,

the giant mouse, whatever. Number one, the giant

mouse needs a lot of money right now. Number

two, they want to continue to make money and

they have to basically, anybody, not just us,

not just the die hard fans, not just the stands,

not just the whatevers. They need to beat everybody,

us, the normal people, the kids, everybody over

the head. with the butt of a lightsaber because

they need the money. That's the problem, is that

they need the money. They can't afford to let

a franchise sit for 15, 16 years ever again.

That's the biggest problem. But at the same time,

you're burning your food. Because the more terrible

things you make, the more you damage the property,

and the less money you get out of it. I understand

they need money, but in a weird way, strike has

kind of proven that apparently movie companies

can actually do better almost in a fallow period,

because you don't have to pay for, you're not

throwing all this money after a movie that bombs.

Apparently someone did the math, and Lucasfilm

alone has cost Disney a billion dollars this

year. It doesn't surprise me. Nothing surprise

with with all of the like, okay, so People won't

have heard this yet because it doesn't come out

until November or so But Dave and I recorded

a different show Studio 2009 here on the gig

Castrea Network the Empire of podcasts We recorded

episode 66 which was revenge of the Sith and

most of the time when I'm giving background information

for films or whatever, I will talk about the

budget. I told Dave what the budget was and what

the box office was and he's like, holy crap,

for 2005, that's a lot. And I'm like, yeah, it's

even more, the budget versus box office stuff,

I can't believe. Rise of the beasts practically

bombed. It didn't make its money back I liked

the movie, but it didn't make its money back

because I think it was released at the wrong

time Well, yeah release dates make a big difference

Yeah, and you have that Hollywood accounting

where movie might actually look profitable But

then it turns out to actually have not made any

money at all and there's been a ton of lawsuits

about that but I think it's There's there's fatigue.

There's superhero movie fatigue. There's transformers

fatigue. There's The the hardcore fandom is growing

it's changing and I just when I was at Target

today I was walking through the media section

heading over the NECA aisle and I'm seeing a

trailer for the Little Mermaid movie a lot of

action one Yeah, and now we have a mutual friend

who loved the Little Mermaid. I have yet to hear

his feelings He liked it. He thought it was good.

No interesting But I'm seeing and hearing the

amount of work they put into that film and I'm

just wondering and I'm sitting here as an uninformed

Idiotic, you know depends on I know you're going

with this I think I know you're going with Josh

and it depends on who you ask like detractors

will say it did not make money and Disney will

say it didn't make money. The problem is these

days these films are so expensive and it costs,

and then the thing is, you have to add in, they

don't have marketing as part of the baseline

for the cost of the movie, so you gotta double

it for marketing, and then remember, if a movie

makes, if you give a theater your dollar to the

movie, Disney doesn't get that dollar, Disney

gets a portion of that dollar, and that's actually

why everything's still kind of screwed up and

based towards opening weekend, and not like keeping

movies in theaters all year long anymore. because

the percentage of what the theater gets versus

what the studio gets changes the longer you go.

Like the studio gets opening weekend and then

the theater gets later receipts. But it doesn't

get all of it. It never gets all of it. And also

different countries like, you know, China. Oh,

we got it. We got the Chinese market. Oh, the

Chinese market. Yeah, Chinese don't give you

dick back. They give you nothing. And then a

lot of these markets don't give you the percentage.

The studio is the percentage. So it's like it

made 100 million dollars worldwide. Yeah, and

the studios see maybe 30 million and that. So

what I'm saying is when you have like $600 million

invested in a movie like Indiana Jones, you've

got to make about a billion. Yeah. Well, what

I was actually going with that was... I'm sorry,

I thought you were going with how much it cost.

Well, yes, but I also kind of took a left turn

in that, yes, that movie cost a huge amount and

I was just wondering like they could have come

out with and taken the chance on the new property

for a lot less and a lot lower risk and I don't

know what the risk is compared with a established

property like Little Mermaid which is very high

but I don't know what Pixar's come out with some

properties that in content was no established

characters just Pixar being the established brand

And it was hugely popular, I don't know the comparison.

But they had a very bad initial theatrical run,

and it went immediately to Disney Plus, and that's

where it built an audience. Yeah, I'm just thinking,

when I was walking past, why couldn't they find

another fairy tale, why couldn't they find something

else, just to give that same magic to, or a lesser

known story, give that same magic to, because...

Money, it's all about the name recognition, that's

why they keep, you know... Yeah, and they're

taking those chances on it, and they're not getting

me out to the theater. I mean, I want to see

the Barbie movie, I'll be honest. I want to see

that. That sounds interesting, but that also

hasn't been done before in the theaters unless

you're five years old. Yeah. So just for reference,

again, going back to Transformers, every other

Transformers movie has broken a billion. Rise

of the Beasts. Worldwide 480 438 million 966

thousand 392 Rise of the beasts did not break

a billion bucks at the box office That to me

sucks because it's one of my it if I take all

seven of those films That's probably my second

favorite of the seven I guess maybe And that's

crazy because it is what it is but and you guys

are right, you know You you know, they they have

these things and they will try a limited Theatrical

run or something and we are still coming off

of kovat and all that everything else You know

you guys know this unless I have to and everyone

listens out of my voice knows this I don't leave

my apartment so I was more than happy to If I

had it, if I wanted to spend it, to spend that

extra money to see something on Disney Plus early,

kind of that early access stuff, I'm more than

happy to sit here on my ass in my own space and

watch whatever versus having to, number one,

find public transportation to a movie theater,

number two, sit there for two and a half hours

with complete strangers that I don't know and

I have no interest in getting to know them. Kind

of like... I'm all about that instantaneous stuff

where it's like if I can have it now at home

I'm more than happy for it and I will pay what

I have to like within reason But I'll pay what

I have to pay to be able to do that. Yeah, I'm

I'm there with you because You know right now

at home. I have you know, I have a wonderful

basement bar. It's very comfortable I can have

whatever I want there for my kitchen and I don't

have to sit next to a guy who's shoveling Three

buckets of popcorn into his face and chewing

louder than anything I've ever heard I couldn't

even hear the film the last time was at the theater

How did you know I bought three buckets of popcorn?

You stalker. I counted after the second But you

know the one of last times I was there it was

we paid the higher prices we had to become PC

in this great this guy is just Shoveling popcorn

like he made maybe he didn't eat that day. Maybe

he didn't eat that week and It just it It was

just frustrating and I'm okay spending a little

bit more money to just sit home or just wait

a little longer Like I can watch Barbie at home.

It's okay But here's the thing like That approach

is ultimately I mean, maybe it'll be a good thing

that you won't but you're not gonna get a movie

like endgame down the road because that movie

because movies make money streaming has a limited

a Limited pool of people to buy into it So like

I mean sooner or later, they're throwing money

at it now but like Sooner or later, it's just

not gonna be financially effective to like, you

know spin three hundred dollars something like

endgame, you know needs a three hundred dollar

three hundred million dollar budget And you're

not gonna get that you're not gonna get the spectacle.

I like going to movies I I hear everything you're

saying about like other people in the movie theater

You know, I have like weird little things where

I like to sit in the far back Because that way

nobody can get behind you and like that's your

chair throw crap or talk But I think when you

have a crowd that's into it Like in endgame when

everyone knows everybody with all the portals

open everybody comes out I still remember Batman

89 when you finally see that it's the bat symbol

that you've been looking at to the opening credits

and 300 people in the theater went whoa at the

same time Star Trek 4 we saw opening night with

Proud of Trekkies and they're cheering every

credit and going crazy. I think when you can

get that kind of experience, I mean, seeing in

a theater is an experience. It's not just like,

if there's something I don't care about and I

just wanna see the movie or know what happens,

like Mike said, I can read the Wikipedia article.

The part of going to a movie in the theater is

the experience. And I'm not saying that other

people can't ruin it because people ruin everything

and I don't like people, but sometimes you get

lucky. You get the experience you want and it's

something that you remember and it lasts with

you and it's magic All I'm saying I'm just wondering

if that experience is gonna be and the end games

in those big films I'm just wondering if those

are still going to be a thing going forward.

No No, I mean They're either gonna bankrupt themselves

or they're not gonna do that anymore I mean this

there's some new thing from Tony Gilroy who did

the rogue one and and or and It only costs like

80 million dollars to make and it looks fantastic.

It looks like a 300 million dollar movie. I think

if you just I think if you have standards, you

know what you're doing. I also think part of

it is more of a tangent. I think I think the

movies have to be good. I don't think they've

been good recently. Like I think you have to

like part of it is like with with the Soka. Like

the thing is, it's so geared for Star Wars heads

like that it's not really accessible to people

who aren't Star Wars fans, and there's very little

in the series that's very welcoming to Star Wars

fans. I think you gotta make, you just gotta

make the product good. If the product's good,

people will come to it, and if the product's

not good, if the product's just another, you

know, this guy fights this guy, and you know,

the character we like, especially when you add

in, like, undermining the characters that people

already like. I think it's a one -two punch,

and the story's not that good. Then they're spending

hundreds of millions of dollars on garbage. It's

literally like the Joker from Dark Knight Where

he's burning the huge piles of money money, and

it's not about money. It's about sending a message

and it's like, okay, I got the message I Like

I said, I saw Picard season one. I don't need

this story again and again and again and again.

I'm done I'm done. I'm out. I I agree with you

to a certain point But, just like we will find

out in part two, but when we recorded part one

of Ahsoka, that show is not for normal people.

Okay, but how much did they spend on a show that's

not, I mean, because it looks, like the one positive

thing I'll say about that show is it looks fantastic.

Like all the money they threw at it. Like, it's

on the screen, to be fair. But how much money

do they spend on a show that's not for everybody?

And it's Star Wars. Star Wars should be for everybody.

It should be very rare that you do something

that's... My problem is that my beloved Andor

is not for everybody. But I also think that show

is good. It was written well. It's interesting.

Or I think this one is... very sloppy and You

can't spend hundreds of millions of dollars on

a thing. That's not for everybody You can spend

80 million dollars on a thing. That's not for

everybody You know you can spend any movie budgets

on things that are not for everybody, but if

it's not for everybody You're an idiot for spending

all that money I Think with the Disney Plus even

though they've gotten multiple seasons on some

of them with the Disney Plus limited series,

the six episode series stuff. I think that's

because they want people coming back. I also

think that half of those shows that are those

six episodes, whatever, eight episodes, could

be a two and a half, three hour film. you restructure

it just a little bit and work it as a film it

could work and I think the reason why Disney

does this is they are not trying to get like

for me and I mentioned this to Dave on the other

show and I'm willing to go back and try you know

no skin off my back back in 2016 or whenever

the hell Rogue One came out The only time I got

interested in it was when the big black suit

guy showed up with his red stick at the end I

had no interest in any of those characters back

then however I'm willing to try it again to see

if I do have interest in the way that Dave and

I are gonna eventually do that on the other show

is we're actually going to start with the Endor

series and see if it's going to sway me at Oh,

okay. So yeah, we're gonna take a quick ad break,

you're gonna hear some ads and some other stuff,

and we're gonna come back and close the show

right after this. I'm KDogg. And I'm Fish, and

you're listening to Toycast with Mike and Dave.

If you like Funko Pops and pop culture, check

out our channel at KDogg and Fish on everything,

including a wicked podcast and YouTube channel.

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right folks this has been Toycast episode 184

I'm of course dear to Mike Dave and Josh are

here with me Once around the room final thoughts

anything you want to say before I run through

the closing Josh I I just appreciate that we

went from Ninja Force Zartan all the way to Movie

politics. I actually am very proud of being part

of that conversation and Dave I'm sorry I dreaded

in that conversation. I keep derailing all these

things. I'm very sorry. No, no. This is why I

wanted to be part of this with you. I actually

really enjoy this, so thank you. The holders

are cool. Yes, yes they are. They're very much

Audrey 3 -like. Thank you for joining us here

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